|
|
Post by leeside on Jul 14, 2012 18:13:40 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Wasp on Jul 16, 2012 20:37:00 GMT
I heard about it for the first time this evening and the bands explanation along with that of Nelson McCausland is reasonable. Some people watching did sing but not the band and they sung in response to what republicans were singing and shouting just across the road.
I would never defend any type of sectarian singing, this occasion I firmly believe to be innocent on the bands part. I know that area well and TBH I have been passed that road many times but never knew it was a chapel until I saw it on the news. The band going round in circles is common place with many bands when a parade comes to a halt, this band did not just stop there for the sake of stopping, the parade stopped way on ahead of this band.
The sf rep who spoke on the news is a well known shit stirring scumbag who is well know to provoke trouble and there was clear evidence of that on the news. If this band had simply stopped outside a chapel, knowing it was a chapel and stopped for no other reason than to play any sectarian song then I condemn it outright, this was not the case here and I believe it was a bee gees song they were playing, cant rem name of it but I will get you it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wasp on Jul 16, 2012 20:44:33 GMT
The name of the song was Sloop John B by the Bee Gees, here is part of the bands statement....
The statement also claimed it was "pure chance" that a delay in the parade meant that the band came to a halt outside the church and added that continuing to play while circling was standard practice.
The band said the church "had its doors closed and there was certainly no act of worship going on at the time" and added: "In fact, many of our members in the band only realised that we had been playing outside the chapel when it was reported by the local media."
But local Sinn Féin councillor Conor Maskey, who witnessed what happened, said the band had behaved "provocatively".
He added: "The Orange Order needs to explain to the St Patrick's congregation why a loyalist band taking part in their parade played sectarian tunes and behaved provocatively outside St Patrick's Church."
According to YCV Flute Band, a number of PSNI officers were on duty and saw there was "no outward animosity" directed towards the chapel.
But police confirmed they were studying a significant amount of footage in relation to the incident.
"If any criminal offences are detected, a full and thorough investigation will be carried out," a PSNI spokesperson said.
Police also intervened when it appeared that two band members approached the person filming the parade and attacked him.
"Several of our band did take exception to being filmed and having their children filmed (as young as three-years-old) by what is believed a member of a hostile republican gathering, perceivably for some untoward purpose, before marshals did approach to ask him to stop filming," the band said.
The band also accused police of doing nothing to help defuse the situation and said those parading had already been subjected to sectarian abuse from onlookers.
The statement expressed regret at "how events had been portrayed", but added: "If the YCV Shankill Road may have given offence in this instance, we would certainly apologise to those in authority or engagement for any act that perceivably may have brought discredit on the colours which we wear or the historic YCV title which we proudly bear."
A Belfast County Grand Lodge spokesperson told UTV that the Orange Order reviews all parades and would take any issues into account in that review.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wasp on Jul 16, 2012 20:44:59 GMT
And from Nelson McCausland.....
Nelson McCausland said the band did not deliberately stop outside the church.
He said although the actions of the band were "thoughtless and naive", Mr McCausland said how the incident had been covered in the media had been blown out of proportion.
Misrepresented
He said the band did not deliberately set out to offend.
"If someone was intending to be provocative or inflammatory which is the suggestion that is being made, it wasn't really very provocative," he said.
"It was just an empty building. There was no-one there to be provoked."
The Parades Commission described the incident as "totally inappropriate".
Rev Brian Kennaway said the commission would look into how it was allowed to happen.
At the end of one of the videos, the person recording it is confronted and threatened by members of another band.
At one point the band was playing the music of "the famine song", an anti-Catholic song which originated in Glasgow.
The famine song is played to the music of the Beach Boys' Sloop John B, but replaces the chorus "I feel so broke up, I wanna go home" with "The famine is over, why don't you go home?".
"Most of the tunes, in fact all of tunes I recognised up to that point were actually pop songs," said Mr McCausland.
"It was only one single tune which has been identified as being potentially contentious.
"If the band had wanted to be provocative or inflammatory as they have been described on the BBC and elsewhere, they wouldn't have waited all that time to play one tune and spent the rest of the time playing pop tunes."
"The parade stopped at that point because the front of the parade had reached the city hall and there was a wreath-laying ceremony taking place at the cenotaph, therefore the parade came to a halt during that," he said.
"The band could equally have been stopped outside a paper shop or a chip shop. It simply was by coincidence that they were outside St Patrick's."
In a statement the PSNI said that it had been observed that two bands had continued to play when they had stopped outside the church.
"Although it was deemed that this was not in breach of a Parades Commission determination, officers liaised with parade stewards to negotiate an end to this action," continued the statement.
"Police evidence gatherers were also tasked to the area to monitor and record the incident.
"Officers intervened when a member of the public privately recording the incident was approached by a group of men. Throughout this incident police worked closely with stewards and organisers to resolve the situation peacefully.
"A considerable amount of footage has been recorded and will be studied closely. If any criminal offences are detected a full and thorough investigation will be carried out."
In a statement, Belfast County Grand Lodge said: "The institution reviews all parades and will take any issues into account in that review."
|
|
|
|
Post by leeside on Jul 27, 2012 23:24:02 GMT
I honestly dont buy it wasp. It pretty obvious that its a catholic church. It certainly doesnt look like a tescos. The band members know full well that the song is a rangers song. Combining the two it doesnt look very good.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wasp on Jul 28, 2012 15:29:27 GMT
In all honesty as I said I didnt know it was a catholic church and no-one claimed it was tescos. Secondly there are plenty of places they could have stopped to offend people considering the chapel was empty and remember this is only oneside of the story with the republicans shouting abuse on up a bit being ignored.
The song is not a rangers song its a bee gees song and bands play many many types of music including pop and hymms which are known worldwide. One of my favourite songs is the sound of silence but bands are not to blame for some football fans changing words to songs, which btw happens with both celtic and rangers fans where well known songs have the words adapted.
Its the same as saying irish singers or whoever shouldnt play songs because they know celtic fans have their own offensive versions of the song.
I think you should know me well enough by now that I will condemn whatever but this isnt one of those instances.
|
|
|
|
Post by leeside on Jul 28, 2012 16:50:42 GMT
Wasp, its got a statue above its door and it also has the distinct architecture of a church. Its clearly a church and I've no doubt that the band knew damn well it was a catholic church.
Regarding the abuse from republicans: Was it in response to what happened or just general abuse? I dont know what you're referring to.
Wasp, its a Beach Boys tune not a Bee Gees tune. As you can hear from the people singing its a well known Rangers song sang to its tune. Im pretty damn sure that the band were aware of that. To suggest otherwise is frankly naive or disingenuous.
No Wasp its not. More accurately it would be like saying that a republican flute band shouldnt be playing a tune that has been adapted to a sectarian song outside a protestant church with republican onlookers then singing the sectarian version of that song. That is something that should not be allowed to happen.
You'll have to convince me of that im afraid, wasp.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wasp on Jul 30, 2012 18:43:52 GMT
There are a number of buildings in Belfast that have similar architecture and TBH the building IMO is not typical of catholic churchs in the Belfast area or further afield. I cannot say that no member knew it was a church but what were they meant to do, stop the whole band playing which is common practice when a parade halts and say we are playing outside an empty chapel??
Not being smart but obviously you have no idea what if not all the vast majority of republican gatherings are about. The absue from republicans was going on long before any band stopped as is the case with every parade they attend to get offended.
How is it, are you saying the bamd shouldnt play a tune because fans of a football club change the words and have their own version. Funny this song was highlighted but no mention of all the other songs played that they couldnt get offended at.
I can see your point and how you word it makes the situation look bad for the bands, the reality is somewhat different but I do take on board your points.
TBH I am not trying to convince you or anyone else of anything, people can take from my posts what I write as this is my viewpoints on whatever the topic is. However I have many times condemned the actions of those who claim to be from 'my' side.
|
|
|
|
Post by leeside on Aug 4, 2012 15:33:42 GMT
Do those other similar buildings you speak of also have religious statues above their doors?
Empty or not it doesnt matter, wasp. Anti Catholic bands should not be allowed play sectarian songs outside Catholic churches in this day and age. If that meant for them to move up or down the road away from the church then so be it.
Would republican marches be met by loyalist crowds shouting abuse if it went by a loyalist area? Or is that simply a republican thing, wasp?
It was highlighted because it was caught on camera, wasp. A loyalist band playing an adapted sectarian song while walking around in circles outside a catholic church.
The reality is is that the situation looked bad because it was a bad situation, wasp.
You will have to remind me of those times im afraid, wasp, because i cant remember them off hand.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wasp on Aug 5, 2012 9:45:04 GMT
I would say some have.
Your first line anti catholic bands is just wrong and implies bands are set up because they are anti catholic, the bands are part of a culture and way of life first and foremost. It was not a sectarian song and the band did not decide to stop there, the parade stopped which is typical of every parade and that is the only reason the band stopped.
First of all republicans were standing on up at traffic lights and travelled down to be offended, secondly the fact there were people watching the bands where the band stopped suggests it was not in a republican area. These parades have been going on for years, some of these parades pass certain areas maybe only once in a year yet one community does not want the other to continue celebrating its culture. This was part of the biggest day in the P.U.L calendar, pretty much like st patrick day parades would be in irish culture.
It was highlighted by a well known republican who walked down to join the side of the parade to provoke as he usually does, it is very much part of tradition for bands to go round in circles and do various routines when they are at a standstill to entertain the crowds. This band did not decide to stop here to play any alledged sectarian tune and turned round in circles for badness, this band would have done the same no matter where it stopped and they played a number of tunes.
When taken out of context and blown out of porportion that is.
Such as attacks on catholic places of worship etc etc
|
|
