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Post by Wasp on Jun 27, 2011 21:27:17 GMT
Leeside your wrote this 'The 'poor us'..'evil republicans'...'innocent protestants'...'no-one cares about us'...'they get everything'...'the media hate us'...'the media dont report republican crimes'....'psni are on their side'....'its a conspiracy against us'....'they started it'
In no way am I nick picking but I do want to challenge some of what you say. I cannot speak for every area or everyone in any area but I do have first hand experience and I also know people who are experiencing the same.
I am not going to talk about those who you may perceive as people who wave flags or march up and down roads or know no catholics or hate catholics etc, I am talking about ordinary people most of whom dont go to a single band parade, have no interest in politics, have never been in trouble, have a mixed circle of friends and to top it off are ordinary law abiding citizens who are becoming more and more frustrated at the way things are.
Let me start with towns and villages that have a majority Unionist population, look at the facilities loyalist estates get then look at the facilities republican estates get. It was you or slideshow theat asked about Larne so I will use Larne as a prime example. The loyalist estates got a small 5 aside pitch yet the republican estate got a full sized pitch with all the top facilities to go along with it. Money is being threw at the people who wrecked these areas to get them to stop and that is how violence is being rewarded.
Here is proof of the facilities;
The impressive project, which is the brainchild of Seacourt Community Council and Larne Youth Football Club, includes a full-size floodlit third-generation astroturf pitch, offices, an indoor hall, superb changing rooms and a boardroom. Funding for the scheme came from Sport NI (£2.3m) and Larne Borough Council (£200,000).
Mr Wilson said The Cliff could be put to use to by everyone in the community..........YET “We put specific questions to them relating to Section 75 of the Northern Ireland Act. We asked them directly if this scheme had been subjected to equality impact assessment and they did not answer our questions, so we have written to them again, asking them to address the questions.”
He asked: “What have they got to hide?” and asserted: “Any reasonable person in this town knows it’s not a neutral venue. This funding should go to a nuetral venue where all the people of the town can use it and not just a select few.”
AND A key objection is the proximity to the proposed pitch of a flag stand on which republican flags are flown on designated days.
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Post by leeside on Jun 27, 2011 22:39:00 GMT
TBH, wasp i cant really comment on what you've just written as i dont really know what the story is. The republican area got a full size pitch and the loyalist area got only a 5 a side pitch? Isnt the full size pitch open to everyone but just happens to be closer to a republican area. Is that the main gripe here? I dont mean to sound flippant but it does seem a little petty. I might not be fully understanding the issue here...
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Post by leeside on Jun 27, 2011 22:41:21 GMT
Keep posting more grievances wasp as im genuinely interested...
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Post by Wasp on Jun 28, 2011 23:02:04 GMT
TBH, wasp i cant really comment on what you've just written as i dont really know what the story is. The republican area got a full size pitch and the loyalist area got only a 5 a side pitch? Isnt the full size pitch open to everyone but just happens to be closer to a republican area. Is that the main gripe here? I dont mean to sound flippant but it does seem a little petty. I might not be fully understanding the issue here... Thats a fair answer. The pitch is right beside an estate that has strong republican elements, a factory is on the otherside and this estate is well known for its anti social behaviour and anti PUL views. The flagpoles erected by the police are for republican flags on certain days so its hardly a place that all the communtiy could use. The reason it was put there was to keep certain people happy in the estate and stop them causing trouble etc. Lets say there is a loyalist estate in Dundalk which is well known for its anti social behaviour and hatred of all things Irish where the support for say the uvf was clearly shown. Considering there are a number of deprived areas in Dundalk that identify with there birthright which is Irish and these areas get a token pitch and the loyalist area that has caused the town many problems gets a state of the art pitch with all the facilities. Add that to claims that this pitch is for all the people of Dundalk knowing fine well the pitch is right beside 4 flagpoles which fly loyalist flags in a loyalist estate and that it wouldnt be safe for most irish catholics to go near then perhaps you will see what I am getting at. I do not want to tar all the people of seacourt with the same brush as many cant stand the elements that run the estate, but unfortunately its not their voices that are being heard. |
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Post by Wasp on Jun 28, 2011 23:03:27 GMT
Keep posting more grievances wasp as im genuinely interested... I will do and I am glad of your interest. I am off on a course for work in a few days time so I wont be around for about 2 maybe even 3 weeks but I will be back lol |
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Post by leeside on Jul 1, 2011 17:51:11 GMT
Wasp, dont loyalist groups and areas also get funding if they stop using violence? I know you've presented one case here that a funded facility was built next to a republican estate in Larne but im pretty sure some republican areas in other parts of NI could argue that certain loyalist areas get better facilities than they do and that catholics/republicans would not be at all welcome because of the anti Catholic and Republican views of the loyalists that surround those facilities. Couldn't they?
Let me get this clear regarding the pitch in Larne...so the flag stand that flies the republican flags isnt actually on the grounds of the facility?
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Post by Wasp on Jul 15, 2011 16:13:45 GMT
I cannot speak for all areas but I do know loyalist areas do get funding but if not all the time then most of the time it is less than republican areas. Take the village area where some of the houses still have an outside toilet, thats how underfunded loyalist areas are.
I cant speak for all areas but I cannot think of one single nationalist town that has similar facilities in a staunch loyalist estate that is meant to be for all.
It is right on the age of the grounds with no fence/wall seperating them, there is a pitch and then the changing facilities, then a grass area then the flag poles. That aside this estate is not safe for most Protestants and in particular young people would be most vulnerable to get beat up going to and from the facilities.
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Post by leeside on Jul 17, 2011 17:25:35 GMT
Wasp, that would be the fault of the elected representatives of the loyalist community, not republicans.
It sounds to me that its the proximity to the estate that is the problem here. Its not actually inside the estate. Right?
I dont see much of a problem here with the flag flying if its not actually on the grounds. However, it does sound like a dodgy place allright but im pretty sure that there are other facilities in the north that catholics and republicans would not be safe in using.
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Post by Wasp on Jul 17, 2011 19:25:28 GMT
I never said it was the fault of republicans, it is the lack of interest from our politicians and our government as they see they dont need to do as much for the PUL community because they never carried the threat of violence as republicans did and still do. The PUL community are in part to blame because we do not complain enough.
You have to drive into the estate to get into the grounds, if you imagine a brick then the grounds are halfway down the right hand side of the brick.
Come on leeside, the grass area is part of the grounds and its not a big grass area either. Why not have the flag poles in the centre of the estate or on the otherside away from a supposed all inclusive cross community sporting facility.
It is and its by no means a large estate either, funny thing is the man that runs it is the man that helped ruin it and that comes from catholics not loyalists. When I lived in it the estate was mixed and I never recalled any sectarian tensions until certain republican elements moved in and destroyed the place. Quite a number of catholic families also left because they didnt want all the shite that was going on and I still know a few that still live there. Lets put it this way these families are genuinely scared to speak out or do anything because they will soon get a knock at their door by their so called protectors.
That is not the point, oviously people from bothsides wouldnt be safe or feel safe using facilities in say the shankill or falls rd, this is a completely different scenario.
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Post by leeside on Jul 17, 2011 19:36:50 GMT
Wasp, are you serious? There is a very real threat of violence from loyalists which was very evident over the last couple of weeks. Far more violence has been perpetrated by loyalists recently than there has been by republicans.
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Post by leeside on Jul 17, 2011 20:08:24 GMT
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Post by Wasp on Jul 17, 2011 21:04:34 GMT
Wasp, are you serious? There is a very real threat of violence from loyalists which was very evident over the last couple of weeks. Far more violence has been perpetrated by loyalists recently than there has been by republicans. Sorry I didnt explain myself clearly enough, during the troubles the threat of violence against anything on British soil came from republicans as in blowing up towns killing and maiming civillians etc, also attacks on our security froces etc etc. Both during the troubles and after the main troubles the government is bending over backwards to appease republicans and their violence, seacourt is one of many examples of pumping in money to keep the troublemakers quiet. Hope you understand what I mean now. |
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Post by Wasp on Jul 17, 2011 21:09:05 GMT
Concerning the Coleraine incident well this is a well know thug who is well deep into criminal behaviour and who enjoys attacking people and general anti social behaviour. On an added note the psni were quick to blame loyalists for violence and I have no doubt on occasions that this would be correct, yet there view on republ,ican rioters in Ardoyne was somewhat different even though it was only republicans involved in the rioting. Below is an example;
POLICE have been urged to blame republicans for Twelfth night rioting in Ardoyne – the way they condemned loyalists for recent violence in Short Strand.
North Belfast DUP MP Nigel Dodds said the PSNI must “call a spade a spade” and say who was responsible for the rioting in the north of the city, where 16 police officers were injured amid a barrage of petrol bombs and missiles.
He also denied claims by Sinn Fein’s Gerry Kelly that the republican rioting was not orchestrated, saying: “There was undoubtedly a degree of orchestration. You don’t have petrol bombs just spontaneously appear.
“I think it’s very important that the police should say who is responsible. Dissidents were at the fore for organising the violence of the last couple of days.”
Mr Dodds pointed out that there was no violence from loyalists who had gathered at Twaddell Avenue to watch an Orange feeder parade that had returned past the Ardoyne shop fronts shortly before the violence erupted.
“There was absolutely no violence on the loyalist side,” he said.
“It will be interesting to see if the police come out and clearly say it was dissident republicans and their hangers-on who were responsible for this violence.”
When asked specifically by the News Letter if the PSNI would attribute blame to the republican community, a spokesman referred to comments made by assistant chief constable Alistair Finlay: “This was thuggery with no apparent control, direction and no one apparently able to bring any influence to it.”
Speaking at a press conference yesterday, ACC Finlay went on: “What we saw was the release of built-up energy, a group of young men engaging in thug-like behaviour and they will be brought to justice.
“There will be a follow-up operation like last year and people will be brought before the courts.
“It is hugely regrettable that we get to this situation each year. There are a large number of people across community groups, government and faith groups doing a huge amount to reduce the impact and change things for the better.
“We all need to redouble these efforts and sustain them to get a real and meaningful change for residents of these areas.”
North Belfast MLA Mr Kelly said republicans could not take full responsibility for the trouble the same way loyalists were blamed for the Short Strand violence last month. He said: “If we didn’t have an Orange parade going through a Catholic area this wouldn’t have happened. I’ve made my situation clear condemning the violence but to say all the violence was down to the republican side would be a mistake.
“Applying for a parade after a determination had been made was a recipe for disaster. There was always going to be trouble. Without contentious Orange parades, we wouldn’t be having the conversation we’re having now.”
Mr Kelly also criticised the police for their “method of containment”, saying it left a lot of Catholic residents “vulnerable”.
“The police service is to serve the community and should not use plastic bullets. They can kill people and have killed people. We’re lucky we’re not coming out of this with casualties,” he said.
“The water cannon moved in too early, before any bricks or bottles were thrown.”
However, district commander chief supt Mark Hamilton said the police response to the rioting was “professional and appropriate”.
“Our number one priority is to protect communities at all times and work to promote peace – the policing operation last night reflected that,” he said yesterday.
“The police response to last night’s disorder in the area was professional and appropriate. Police were in the area throughout the night and engaged with local community representatives in an effort to restore calm.
“Despite these efforts, a number of people were involved in serious disorder and police responded accordingly.
“These people showed total disregard for the local community and their actions only served to increase tensions and damage community relations in the area.”
Meanwhile, the first and deputy first minister have both condemned the violence.
Peter Robinson warned that those responsible for manipulating the recent violence “will not win”, while Martin McGuinness added that rioting only results in damaging communities.
A car was set on fire as trouble flared at Ardoyne in north Belfast on Tuesday night
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Post by Wasp on Jul 17, 2011 21:11:45 GMT
And describing the republican rioters;
Speaking at a press conference yesterday, ACC Finlay went on: “What we saw was the release of built-up energy, a group of young men engaging in thug-like behaviour and they will be brought to justice.
Why is it not the same description then for loyalists?? I will tell you why its because the psni are not allowed to speak facts when it concerns republicans incase it upsets them and this is the type of thing I am talking about on our other thread.
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Post by leeside on Jul 17, 2011 21:23:01 GMT
Why aren't loyalists being pursued by the PSNI like republicans are in regards to the rioting, wasp? Looks to me like loyalists can riot without fear of being exposed in the papers, arrested and charged in the way republicans in the ardoyne are/were.
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