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Post by Wasp on Oct 20, 2009 16:39:15 GMT
Lets hope anyone with any sense avoids rome like the plague.
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Post by Blue Angel on Oct 20, 2009 17:03:26 GMT
Actually the Church my father worships in has a parish priest who has is convert from Anglicanism, a Fr. William Nichols who left the Anglican Church due to disagreeing with the ordination of women and homosexuals to the Priesthood there, as the Catholic Church does not recognise the validity of orders in the Anglican Churche he had to study again for about 5 years before ordained. There are a fair few African parishioners in both Churches I regularly use who left Anglicanism over issues to do with women's ordination and homosexuality as the African end of the Anglican Church is far far more conservative on the whole than the British or American parts of it.
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Post by Wasp on Oct 20, 2009 17:32:52 GMT
BA I couldnt care less if millions left any church to join the rcc or anyother church, numbers does not make things right nor does it get you into heaven. If you want to base your salvation on what your church teaches then that is your choice, I will base mine on the bible and the bible alone. My relationship with Jesus is by far more important to me than my relationship with any church, any set of prayers, any pilgrimage, any minister, any elders etc etc, infact it is the only important thing.
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Post by Blue Angel on Oct 20, 2009 18:10:26 GMT
You presume no-one in the Catholic Church has a relationship with Christ. I see the Catholic Church as the oldest Church, the only Church I can see who can contest that claim with any degree of validity are the Eastern Orthodox. If you base your salvation on the bible well done, you are using a book compiled by Catholic Scholars  In any case as a fellow Christian you are of course in imperfect communion with the Catholic Church. The Bible contains a clear picture of a hierachial church in which their are various levels of authority so you are in fact going against the Biblical idea of the Church. |
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Post by Wasp on Oct 20, 2009 18:59:55 GMT
You presume no-one in the Catholic Church has a relationship with Christ. I see the Catholic Church as the oldest Church, the only Church I can see who can contest that claim with any degree of validity are the Eastern Orthodox. If you base your salvation on the bible well done, you are using a book compiled by Catholic Scholars In any case as a fellow Christian you are of course in imperfect communion with the Catholic Church. The Bible contains a clear picture of a hierachial church in which their are various levels of authority so you are in fact going against the Biblical idea of the Church. Sorry but that is the biggest pile of dribble I have ever heard. The rcc and its doctrines are far from Christian and they act contrary to the bible. I think you should read up on who wrote the bible, what was done with the letters of those intrusted with writing God's word etc etc. I have no communion perfect or imperfect with Rome and its filthiness nor would I ever want to have anything to do with practices bordering very closely with satanic worship. I know many devout catholics and of course they try to have a relationship with the Lord, but all the bullshit they believe in also kind of counters it. I have posted many many facts about the type of worship the vatican teaches and that catholics follow yet you have repleid with very very little. Here is some more false religion encourages the love of recognition (vv. 6-7). False religion says, “Stand up and testify.” The Word of God teaches us to bow before the throne of grace and worship. The scribes and Pharisees loved the best place in public meetings. — “The upper most rooms at feasts.” They sought the most prominent place of recognition in church. — “The chief seats in the synagogues.” They craved the recognition of men, having their names recognized and honoured. — “Greetings in the markets.” And they loved titles of distinction, by which they were pretentiously elevated above others. — “To be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi,” or “Reverend,” or “Father.” It is absolutely wrong for believers to give any man the names, titles, and honours that belong to our God and his Christ alone. “But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ” (vv. 8-10). BA just look at all the unbelievable doctrines the rcc has added down the years, it just proves they have no authority on earth or anywhere else and it proves even further those who introduced such doctrines and teach such doctrines are doing the devils work. |
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Post by Blue Angel on Oct 20, 2009 19:13:21 GMT
If you choose to believe this and yoru conscience tells you to do so then you believe to the best of your ability and I believe the doctrine of invincible ignorance covers you in this case. I would rather of course yo admit we are fellow Christians but if you cannot find it in your heart to do so it is of course better not to tell what you would see as a lie. For me I am convinced of the truth that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are the oldest Churches (and that their subsequent seperation was a tragedy) and that both via apostolic succession carry on the legacy of the Church Christ founded.
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Post by Wasp on Oct 20, 2009 19:49:02 GMT
If you choose to believe this and yoru conscience tells you to do so then you believe to the best of your ability and I believe the doctrine of invincible ignorance covers you in this case. I would rather of course yo admit we are fellow Christians but if you cannot find it in your heart to do so it is of course better not to tell what you would see as a lie. For me I am convinced of the truth that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are the oldest Churches (and that their subsequent seperation was a tragedy) and that both via apostolic succession carry on the legacy of the Church Christ founded. I have to disagree with you here, especially the apostic succession. That aside I believe you call yourself a Christian, I believe you are continuing to follow the path that Chrisitians should lead concerning your changed views on the troubles here and that type of thing BUT I firmly believe you are on the wrong path concerning salvation and I firmly believe you are following the words of a church rather than the bible. Please look at all the false doctrines intorduced by the rcc, the same doctrines that are still in place today and I ask you to read the bible and not take my word for it, nor your priests, nor the word of any man for it. |
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Post by Blue Angel on Oct 20, 2009 19:50:52 GMT
setanta - er, can we keep conversing so long as we maintain the reasonably polite tone as we are (so far) agreeing to disagree at least.
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Post by Blue Angel on Oct 20, 2009 19:52:46 GMT
On the actual point of the thread I have mixed feelings about this - I would like to obviously see the Anglican and Catholic Churches re-unite but I feel this could be perceived as a crafty attempt to steal priests from the former if things aren't handled well.
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Post by Blue Angel on Oct 20, 2009 19:55:48 GMT
WASP - I could no longer believe in a path of violence to attain political unity in Ireland once I considered the ultimate ramifications of it in light of calling yourself a Christian. I am aware others in Irish history have been able to do so but for me I find the contradictions too difficult and I am perhaps moving towards a position akin to republics which is skeptical of the 'shadow of the gunman' to borrow that line from O'Casey.
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Post by Wasp on Oct 20, 2009 20:28:35 GMT
BA I can only welcome your comments. Believe it or not when I heard an ira terrorist was killed I was over the moon because all I could think on was those who could have been killed at his/her hands so many people lived or were not maimed because of it, I was also glad to see them gat a taste of their own medicene. But at the sametime I knew their family was suffering like other families and I knew that this was another soul lost because of his actions.
Anyway I fully support peoples right to worship regardless of their beliefs, while I can say on somethings I repect there opinion etc, on many others I cannot say that because to me I am respecting what I see as a mockery to the Lord. I accept these opinions and there right to have them but I would not say I repsect them.
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Post by Blue Angel on Oct 20, 2009 22:29:42 GMT
There has to be a mocking intent surely for there to be mockery? I disagree with many Protestant denominations but I don't see them as mocking God. Right now I'm engaged on another forum where a fellow Catholic is seriously trying to argue the ridiculous point that Protestants don't pray or know how to do so - fortunately the majority of Catholics there find her points ridiculous as do I.
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Post by collina on Oct 20, 2009 22:44:01 GMT
There has to be a mocking intent surely for there to be mockery? I disagree with many Protestant denominations but I don't see them as mocking God. Right now I'm engaged on another forum where a fellow Catholic is seriously trying to argue the ridiculous point that Protestants don't pray or know how to do so - fortunately the majority of Catholics there find her points ridiculous as do I. She's probably confusing begging for praying. Until I was six or seven, I earnestly believed that I would find something by whinging about it to Saint Jude. That is until my mother pointed out that this type of thing was horseshite and my time would be far better employed looking for the missing object. Was I offended? Nope. |
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Post by Blue Angel on Oct 20, 2009 23:11:24 GMT
She's something of a fanatic - she's regarded there somewhat as Aidan is here when he gives his opinions on religion - Btw why would you have prayed to St. Jude for lost items, he's the patron saint of lost causes, St. Anthony is the saint for lost items. My mother's advice on finding lost items was generally stop and calmly think about what you were doing and retrace your steps in your head. I certainly don't have time for these kind of carry-ons, God did equip us with brains and ability to do things for ourselves.
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Post by Wasp on Oct 21, 2009 14:07:18 GMT
Why pray to any man that has been made a saint by the rcc, why not just pray to God as instructed in the bible?
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In any case as a fellow Christian you are of course in imperfect communion with the Catholic Church. The Bible contains a clear picture of a hierachial church in which their are various levels of authority so you are in fact going against the Biblical idea of the Church.