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Post by Blue Angel on Oct 21, 2009 14:22:39 GMT
I do myself - but I have no problem with intercession, you misunderstand the nature of prayer for Catholics I think, of their own the saints or Mary have no power - all power rests in God's hand's eventually.
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Post by Wasp on Oct 21, 2009 14:33:05 GMT
I do myself - but I have no problem with intercession, you misunderstand the nature of prayer for Catholics I think, of their own the saints or Mary have no power - all power rests in God's hand's eventually. Have you read any of these prayers especially those about mary and you do know the bible is quite clear on the point of one mediator, and you do know that Pope JP II devoted everything to mary, even after his attempted assasination. Now that is as close to doing the devils work against God as you could get. |
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Post by Blue Angel on Oct 21, 2009 14:40:42 GMT
Not at all - and I know more prayers to Mary than most Catholics, including the ones used by Eastern Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox where mary is normally termed theotokos which means 'God-bearer' If you think JP was doing the Devils work I absolutely disagree, I happen to have had a great deal of respect for JPII who throughout his long life was a staunch opponent of bigotry or prejudice wherever possible. Was he doing the Devil's work when he urged the following:-
"I appeal to you in language of passionate pleading.
"On my knees I beg you to turn away from the paths of violence and return to the ways of peace."
He continued: "To Catholics, to Protestants, my message is peace and love. May no Irish Protestant think the Pope is an enemy, a danger or a threat."
He also called on Ireland's youth not to engage in violence: "I appeal to young people who may have become caught up in organisations engaged in violence.
"I say to you, with all the love I have for you, with all the trust I have in young people: Do not listen to voices which speak the language of hatred, revenge, retaliation."
You say you are pleased to see me make a sea-change in my support for physical force republicanism, views like Pope JPII's had a lot to do with.
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Post by Wasp on Oct 21, 2009 15:42:05 GMT
Let's forget about anyother church, just concentrate on your own beliefs if you could. Why as I said do you contradict scripture with prayers to anyone else when the bible clearly states there is one mediator?
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:" —Exodus 20:4
"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." —Isaiah 42:8
"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them..." —Exodus 20:5
"Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." —Mark 7:7
"For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect." —Mark 13:22
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3...
Concerning JP did he ever say he was born again?? The devil himself promised Jesus many things so JP's words run hollow with me, although I do think he was sincere in some of the things he said. But let's take a closer look at him. No one in the Bible was ever reverenced as "God upon the earth," other than our Lord Jesus Christ.
Cardinal Egan of Saint Patrick's Cathedral in New York said that Pope John Paul II was "just like Jesus." , funny that considering he wears the most expensive of garments, drinks from cups made of pure gold etc etc, hardly like Jesus now is he??
Jesus never controlled great wealth. The pope controls one of the wealthiest corporations in the world. The pope welcomes the praise of men, but Jesus directed all worship to the Father, and said of Himself:
"Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." Mark 10:18
People bow down to him, kiss his ring etc yet look at what the bible says "And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man." Acts 10:25-26
Catholic Catechism "The Pope enjoys, by divine institution, supreme, full, immediate, and universal power in the care of souls" Pg. 246, #937
The bible "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church..." Ephesians 5:23
In his book, Crossing The Threshold of Hope, Pope John Paul II tells his readers:
Totus Tuus (“I am completely yours O Mary”). This phrase is not only an expression of piety, or simply an expression of devotion. It is more. During the Second World War, while I was employed as a factory worker, I came to be attracted to Marian devotion. .Thanks to Saint Louis of Montfort, I came to understand that true devotion to the Mother of God is actually Christocentric (Pope John Paul II 1994).
He has uttered to the world that the Catholic Church has expressed some ‘regret’ and has spoken of ‘harmful acts’ of the past, and referred to some ‘weaknesses’ and “mistakes”, not once has he simply admitted that the Roman Catholic Church had literally murdered millions of Christians, nor has he truly apologized for these acts.
"The Pope is of great authority and power, that he is able to modify, declare, or interpret even divine laws. The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth..." Lucius Ferraris, in "Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica", Volume V, article on "Papa, Article II", titled "Concerning the extent of Papal dignity, authority, or dominion and infallibility", #30, published in Petit-Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition.
“Christ entrusted His office to the chief pontiff;... but all power in heaven and in earth has been given to Christ;... therefore the chief pontiff, who is His vicar, will have this power.” Corpus Juris, chap. 1, column 29, translated from a gloss on the words Porro Subesse Romano Pontiff.
"No one is found in the one Church of Christ, and no one perseveres in it, unless he acknowledges and accepts obediently the supreme authority of St. Peter and his legitimate successors." Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, PTC:873, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 4: "The Book of Christians", Chapter 4: "There is No Allegiance to Christ Without Submission to the Pope").
"Christ Jesus left you this sweet key of obedience; for He left His Vicar, whom you are all obliged to obey until death. And whoever is outside his obedience is in a state of damnation." St. Catherine of Siena, MCH, reference #374, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 5: "The Book of Obedience", Chapter 1: "There is No Salvation Without Personal Submission to the Pope").
And you wander why I firmly believe he is now in hell.
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Post by collina on Oct 21, 2009 20:31:22 GMT
Why pray to any man that has been made a saint by the rcc, why not just pray to God as instructed in the bible? Agreed. The idea of praying to saints is the Vaticans way of taking ownership of God. BTW Wasp, I think most Catholics know this by now. |
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Post by Wasp on Oct 21, 2009 21:09:06 GMT
Why pray to any man that has been made a saint by the rcc, why not just pray to God as instructed in the bible? Agreed. The idea of praying to saints is the Vaticans way of taking ownership of God. BTW Wasp, I think most Catholics know this by now. Collina I would like to think so but I am not so sure. Most of my catholic friends who practice their faith do pray to saints and above all Mary. Some of them believe that the only way to get to God is through dead people such as those the rcc has voted as saints, and some of them although only a few at most believe it takes a priest to bring God to people. |
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