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Post by Wasp on Oct 18, 2009 22:32:25 GMT
Friday October 16 2009
A DEVASTATING report into the failure of the Catholic Church and State authorities to reign in "predatory" priests and serial clerical sex abusers in the Dublin archdiocese will be published at the end of next week.
All but one chapter of the shocking report into clerical sex abuse in Ireland's largest diocese, which is set to rock the Catholic Church, will be published by Justice Minister Dermot Ahern.
The 700-page report of the Dublin Archdiocese Commission of Investigation dwarfs the 2005 Ferns report which resulted in that diocese being branded "the worst diocese in the world". The commission report will detail the Church's handling of known and suspected abusers and will outline the response to allegations by a succession of bishops.
Hierarchy
They include 19 clerics in the Catholic hierarchy, including Cardinal Desmond Connell who last year dropped a court challenge to stop the commission getting access to 5,586 secret Church files. Seven of the bishops who served in Dublin are dead. Yesterday, Mr Justice Paul Gilligan ruled that all but one chapter of the report of the Dublin Archdiocese Commission of Investigation be published.
Chapter 19 -- and some 21 references to a cleric who is awaiting trial that are peppered throughout the report -- will be temporarily censored in case it prejudices any criminal proceedings relating to the unnamed priest. Last night, victims of clerical sex abuse expressed their disappointment that the hard hitting report -- which exceeds some 700 pages -- cannot be published in full. But they accepted that a partial publication of some of the report's contents could jeopardise future criminal trials.
Archbishop Diarmuid Martin warned earlier this year the long-running inquiry had uncovered thousands of cases of abuse by priests.
Up to 450 people have made abuse allegations against former priests since 1940.
Last night, Justice Minister Dermot Ahern -- who had referred the report to the High Court -- welcomed Judge Gilligan's order. The report, with the court-ordered redactions, will be published by the end of next week.
"I have always made it clear that I have been anxious to put the report into the public domain as quickly as possible while at the same time not wishing to do anything which would prejudice the chances of any of the people involved in these evil deeds being brought to justice," he said. Ruling on publication of the report yesterday, Mr Justice Paul Gilligan said one chapter relating to a particular cleric was to be excluded from publication at this stage on grounds it may prejudice criminal proceedings against that cleric. He also directed that some 21 references to the same cleric in other parts of the report should also not be published for now.
He adjourned to May 5 next year the issue of whether or not the excluded parts should be published.
He said his decision allowing publication of the vast bulk of the report was made after considering and balancing the paramount importance of an accused's right to a fair trial, the right of the community to prosecute and the public interest. Four clerics who are defendants in criminal proceedings "relevant to an act or omission in the report" were notice parties to the hearing and the judge heard submissions on their behalf as well as on behalf of the commission, the minister, the DPP and the Attorney General.
- Dearbhail McDonald, John Cooney and Shane Hickey
Irish Independent
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Post by Royalist0007 on Oct 18, 2009 22:55:27 GMT
The issue of whether homosexual individuals should be allowed to adopt or not is an entirely seperate issue from treating them with individual dignity. I'd take a conservative line on allowing gay adoption but I'd outrightly say arguing for mass executions as your doing here is morally misguided - and that's understating it by several orders of magnitude. If you are arguing gay people are suffering from a mental illness then you are arguing their responsibility is diminshed, you are essentially arguing the 'useless eaters' point of view of the Nazi regime. Blue Angel, Adolf Hitler was a removed as well as a nutcase. Hitler also engaged in the idolatrous worship of successive Popes of Rome right up to Pope Pius XII of Rome. Aidan. |
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Post by Republic on Oct 18, 2009 23:12:14 GMT
Its a sad thing to say, but the antics of the church have just beaten me into a state of apathy. Its almost not worth caring about, I know I will feel frustrated to see such a horrible mob get away with their crimes.
Blue Angel, I never knew you were a catholic, I always thought you were an atheist??
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Post by Royalist0007 on Oct 19, 2009 3:53:35 GMT
Republic,
I think Blue Angel has admitted to being an idol worshipper,as that is what Roman Catholics are.
Aidan.
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Post by Harry on Oct 19, 2009 11:12:04 GMT
I've cleaned up some of the posts.
It will not be happening again.
I've done it so no one can accuse anyone of anything.
Aidan, play by the rules. I truly welcome your input but in accordance with the rules laid out your posts are unacceptable.
Harry
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Post by collina on Oct 19, 2009 13:04:04 GMT
Republic, I think Blue Angel has admitted to being an idol worshipper,as that is what Roman Catholics are. Aidan. Where does it say in the Bible that Roman Catholics are idol worshippers? |
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Post by Blue Angel on Oct 19, 2009 13:37:55 GMT
Republic, I think until the last 6 months or so I would have identified myself as an atheist, I can quite understand btw why you feel beaten down by the behaviour of the Church in Ireland, it's part of what led me to start calling myself an atheist. The whole arrogant, self-righteous attitude that many in the Irish Church have taken over the last century or two (especially post-independence) has not been endearing.
There's no point to try and convince Aidan I don't worship idols, I use a Catholic forum a fair bit as well as this one and to be honest there are a few fanatical Catholics there that remind me of him, one in particular keeps denying Protestants are fellow Christians and that they worship Satan. Like Aidan he has been banned from numerous forums but keep re-registering with different accounts and names - also like Aidan people have become so used to it that they no longer take offence.
You could only be called an idol worshipper if you beleive a statue is a god in an of itself or has powers to do anything for you. Both of which ideas I manifestly reject, Aidan seems to think that because Catholics believe some things they will believe anything. I am actually not that big on religous statues, I prefer icons as are used in the Eastern Catholic or Orthodox Churches.
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Post by Wasp on Oct 19, 2009 16:34:32 GMT
Abuse report to highlight tawdry saga of cover-ups
ANALYSIS: The report about to be published into child sex abuse by Dublin priests will shine a light on how some of the country’s most senior churchmen covered up their crimes, writes MARY RAFTERY
ON THIS day, precisely seven years ago, RTÉ television broadcast Cardinal Secrets , the Prime Time investigation which uncovered widespread clerical child abuse and cover-up within the Roman Catholic archdiocese of Dublin. The government’s response was swift. Then minister for justice Michael McDowell announced its intention to establish a commission of investigation. This was to be one of the first of the so-called fast-track tribunals – a lean operation designed to complete its business rapidly.
And yet, here we are, seven years later, still awaiting its report.
However, the fault for the delay does not lie with the commission. As the initial political enthusiasm for inquiry waned, various government departments dragged their heels, and it was over three years before it was finally established in March 2006.
It has been one of the most silent of our tribunals, with all of its hearings conducted in private. It was catapulted into the public eye only once – during the attempt by Cardinal Desmond Connell, former archbishop of Dublin, to prevent its examination of almost 6,000 church documents over which he claimed privilege. He subsequently dropped his challenge in the face of the clear intention of the current archbishop, Diarmuid Martin, to co-operate fully with the commission.
Connell will of course be at the heart of the commission’s report. How he and his chancellor (or diocesan administrator) Msgr Alex Stenson handled complaints of child abuse against their priests will be one of the key findings of the report. We know already that the cover-up was extensive, and that it stretched back over the tenure of at least three of Connell’s predecessors – archbishops Kevin McNamara, Dermot Ryan and John Charles McQuaid.
It is this involvement by the most senior of the country’s prelates that will set the Dublin report apart. The Ryan report on institutional abuse focused primarily on responsibility and cover-up within religious orders, most of which operate as independent entities within the Catholic Church. Indeed, it was clear in the wake of the report during the summer that the hierarchy was keen to distance itself from the religious congregations involved.
Now, however, it is the turn of the bishops themselves to face the consequences of their actions and omissions, and to be held responsible for the grievous wrongs inflicted on hundreds of children through failure to protect them from abuse.
Bishops all over the country are implicated in this saga of tawdry self-protection. Many of the present hierarchy served apprenticeships as auxiliary bishops in Dublin, and so were in a position to be aware of sexual abuse of children by their priests. For instance, the report is likely to examine the role of the Bishop of Limerick, Donal Murray, in the case of convicted paedophile Fr Thomas Naughton. As a Dublin auxiliary bishop, Murray was told in the early 1980s of complaints made against Naughton while serving in Valleymount, Co Wicklow. Naughton denied all allegations and was allowed remain in the parish.
When further complaints were made, Naughton was simply moved on. He was transferred to Donnycarney parish on Dublin’s northside, where he immediately found new child victims. Again complaints were made, and eventually the priest admitted that he had sexually abused one child only. This was Mervyn Rundle, who several years later sued the archdiocese and received a large sum in compensation.
What happened then provides a key insight into how the archdiocese did its business. The chancellor, Stenson, became centrally involved, although he reported back extensively to his superiors – in the case of Naughton, three archbishops: Ryan, McNamara and Connell. Naughton admitted to Stenson that he had abused the 10-year-old Mervyn on six occasions. Stenson decided to send Naughton to a psychiatrist, who submitted a report stating that, based on what Naughton had told him, he did not view the priest as a serious problem.
The reality was that Naughton had lied. He had told the psychiatrist that there had been only one incident of minor sexual abuse with one child. This was never contradicted by the archdiocese, despite the fact that Naughton had admitted to Stenson that he had abused young Mervyn on six occasions, not to mention the complaints from Valleymount that Bishop Donal Murray knew about.
Nonetheless, Naughton was allowed to remain in Donnycarney parish for the next seven months, saying Mass and hearing confessions, despite the fact that he was a self-confessed criminal. Finally, when further victims became known, it was decided at a meeting of the auxiliary bishops to send Naughton to the UK for treatment.
On his return to Dublin some months later, he was permitted to continue parish work and assigned to Ringsend. There he again began abusing children, sexually assaulting at least two young altar boys. It took a further two years before he was removed from parish ministry in 1988. Eventually in 1995, Mervyn Rundle, then aged 20, made a complaint to the Garda. Naughton was convicted in 1998. For well over a decade, several bishops and senior priests had covered up his criminal activity, protecting him and exposing further very young children to incalculable harm.
This, however, is only a single case. The report will deal with an additional 44 priests. It is likely to establish similar patterns of cover-up, together with cases where abusing priests were given glowing references, allowing them to move to other dioceses and countries. It may also be possible to discover how priests used their involvement with national schools to gain access to victims. There are also indications that working class parishes were at greater risk of having a preponderance of child-abusing priests.
Other patterns likely to emerge are that the children targeted for abuse came very often from the most devout of families. And to further compound the scale of the tragedy, these families and individuals who complained were often ostracised and condemned by many within their own parish who chose to disbelieve them.
We may also finally get answers to other questions, some relating to the role of the State. Why, for instance, have there been so few prosecutions brought against abusing priests, and what (if any) information has been provided to the civil authorities through the years? While we know that Connell stated that he supplied the names of 17 known abusers to the Garda in 1995, we do not yet know precisely what action resulted.
And crucially, there remain areas of mystery around the issue of insurance. The archdiocese has admitted that in 1988 it insured itself against claims in respect of child abuse perpetrated by its priests. It is further documented that during this period and throughout the 1990s, the archdiocese was claiming that it knew little about the issue of child sexual abuse.
It did, however, clearly know enough to insure and protect its assets against future claims.
Finally, it should be remembered that almost every aspect of what will be revealed in the Dublin report has been repeated in other dioceses around the country. Most of them have so far escaped similar scrutiny. Perhaps an extension of the inquiry process nationwide should now be the next step.
Mary Raftery, with reporter Mick Peelo, produced and directed Cardinal Secrets
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Post by Wasp on Oct 19, 2009 17:01:21 GMT
BA please tell me you are only trying to fool us. Take a look at this prayer, what its called and the words concerning mary. Prayer to the Infant Jesus of PragueJesus, You said, "Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you." Through the intercession of Mary, Your holy Mother, I knock, I seek, I ask that my prayer be granted. {mention your petition} Jesus, You said, "All that you ask of the Father in My name, He will grant you." Through the intercession of Mary, Your holy Mother, I humbly and urgently ask Your Father in Your name that my prayer be granted. {mention your petition} Jesus, You said, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My word shall not pass." Through the intercession of Mary, Your holy Mother, I feel confident that my prayer will be granted. {mention your petition} Now look closely at the following; "Mary, Mediatrix of All Graces." The priest quoted from the Second Vatican Council (Lumen gentium ## 61-62): "... in suffering with Him as He died on the cross, she cooperated in the work of the Savior, in an altogether singular way, by obedience, faith, hope, and burning love, to restore supernatural life to souls. As a result she is our Mother in the order of grace." Then BA what about Fatima??   Now wait to get a load of this. God worked a very great miracle before more than 70,000 people at Fatima so that all people would listen to His Mother’s pressing appeal. She came to Fatima out of Her maternal concern for us, Her children, but if we ignore Her, then terrible things will happen. Many souls will go to hell forever — and all of us on earth will be enslaved in a worldwide prison of Communism. If we listen — true peace will be given to the world and many souls will merit eternal happiness in Heaven. Our Lady said: "Many souls go to hell because they have no one to pray for them and make sacrifices for them.
"If you do what I tell you many souls will be saved and there will be peace." But let us especially remember She said: "If My requests are granted, Russia will be converted and there will be peace.
"If My requests are not granted, Russia will spread its errors throughout the world raising up wars and persecutions against the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer — several nations will be annihilated." Sister Lucia of Fatima was left on earth to explain the message of Our Lady of Fatima to the world. She has stated clearly that if we do not heed Our Lady’s requests then Communism will enslave the whole world, including the United States. In answer to the question: "What must the individual Catholic do in order that peace be given to the world, Communism be turned back and the annihilation of nations be averted" Sister Lucia gave the Peace Pledge Formula, which is as follows: Dear Queen and Mother, Who promised at Fatima to convert Russia and bring peace to all mankind, in reparation to Your Immaculate Heart for my sins and the sins of the whole world, I solemnly promise: (1) to offer up every day the sacrifices demanded by my daily duty; (2) to say part of the Rosary (five decades) daily while meditating on the Mysteries; (3) to wear the Scapular of Mount Carmel as profession of this promise and as an act of consecration to You. I shall renew this promise often, especially in moments of temptation.Signature................................................................ (This pledge is not a vow and does not bind under pain of sin. Nevertheless, it is a promise — your word given to your Heavenly Mother.) NOTE: Baptized Catholics may be officially enrolled in the Scapular1 to gain the promise. A non-Catholic may wear the Brown Scapular and will receive blessings for doing so.fatima.org/essentials/whatucando/oluapp19.aspMary worship plain and simple, its all there, even the blind could see it.
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Post by Wasp on Oct 19, 2009 17:38:57 GMT
I will start another thread as this is going way off topic.
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Post by Royalist0007 on Oct 19, 2009 18:26:19 GMT
BA please tell me you are only trying to fool us. Take a look at this prayer, what its called and the words concerning mary. Prayer to the Infant Jesus of PragueJesus, You said, "Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you." Through the intercession of Mary, Your holy Mother, I knock, I seek, I ask that my prayer be granted. {mention your petition} Jesus, You said, "All that you ask of the Father in My name, He will grant you." Through the intercession of Mary, Your holy Mother, I humbly and urgently ask Your Father in Your name that my prayer be granted. {mention your petition} Jesus, You said, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My word shall not pass." Through the intercession of Mary, Your holy Mother, I feel confident that my prayer will be granted. {mention your petition} Now look closely at the following; "Mary, Mediatrix of All Graces." The priest quoted from the Second Vatican Council (Lumen gentium ## 61-62): "... in suffering with Him as He died on the cross, she cooperated in the work of the Savior, in an altogether singular way, by obedience, faith, hope, and burning love, to restore supernatural life to souls. As a result she is our Mother in the order of grace." Then BA what about Fatima?? Now wait to get a load of this. God worked a very great miracle before more than 70,000 people at Fatima so that all people would listen to His Mother’s pressing appeal. She came to Fatima out of Her maternal concern for us, Her children, but if we ignore Her, then terrible things will happen. Many souls will go to hell forever — and all of us on earth will be enslaved in a worldwide prison of Communism. If we listen — true peace will be given to the world and many souls will merit eternal happiness in Heaven. Our Lady said: "Many souls go to hell because they have no one to pray for them and make sacrifices for them.
"If you do what I tell you many souls will be saved and there will be peace." But let us especially remember She said: "If My requests are granted, Russia will be converted and there will be peace.
"If My requests are not granted, Russia will spread its errors throughout the world raising up wars and persecutions against the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer — several nations will be annihilated." Sister Lucia of Fatima was left on earth to explain the message of Our Lady of Fatima to the world. She has stated clearly that if we do not heed Our Lady’s requests then Communism will enslave the whole world, including the United States. In answer to the question: "What must the individual Catholic do in order that peace be given to the world, Communism be turned back and the annihilation of nations be averted" Sister Lucia gave the Peace Pledge Formula, which is as follows: Dear Queen and Mother, Who promised at Fatima to convert Russia and bring peace to all mankind, in reparation to Your Immaculate Heart for my sins and the sins of the whole world, I solemnly promise: (1) to offer up every day the sacrifices demanded by my daily duty; (2) to say part of the Rosary (five decades) daily while meditating on the Mysteries; (3) to wear the Scapular of Mount Carmel as profession of this promise and as an act of consecration to You. I shall renew this promise often, especially in moments of temptation.Signature................................................................ (This pledge is not a vow and does not bind under pain of sin. Nevertheless, it is a promise — your word given to your Heavenly Mother.) NOTE: Baptized Catholics may be officially enrolled in the Scapular1 to gain the promise. A non-Catholic may wear the Brown Scapular and will receive blessings for doing so.fatima.org/essentials/whatucando/oluapp19.aspMary worship plain and simple, its all there, even the blind could see it. Wasp, That is definitely idolatry. Worshipping a statue that is really the ancient Roman goddess Venus is almost as bad as worshipping the Pope of Rome directly! Aidan. |
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Post by Wasp on Oct 19, 2009 18:33:27 GMT
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Post by Blue Angel on Oct 19, 2009 19:21:24 GMT
No-one worships the Pope, respect yes, venerate yes, worship in the same way I would God, no as that would be heresy. The Pope is merely a man.
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Post by Royalist0007 on Oct 19, 2009 19:32:02 GMT
Blue Angel,
Bowing down before a statue of the Pope of Rome IS idolatry,as is pretending to pray to the Pope of Rome.
The Lord God was very angry,as was Moses,with the Israelites for making a gold calf & worshipping it.
Aidan.
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Post by Wasp on Oct 19, 2009 20:55:07 GMT
No-one worships the Pope, respect yes, venerate yes, worship in the same way I would God, no as that would be heresy. The Pope is merely a man. How do catholics view the pope BA?? (Catholic Encyclopaedia, Vol. VI, pg. 48.) Pope is "lord of Heaven, Earth and Hell" Pope Boniface VIII (1294-1303): "The Pope is of so great dignity and excellence, that he is not merely man, but as if God, and the vicar of God. The Pope alone is called most Holy Divine monarch, and supreme emperor, and king of kings. The pope is of great dignity and power, that he constitutes one and the same tribunal with Christ, so that whatsoever the pope does seems to proceed from the mouth of God. The Pope is as God on earth." And in 1949 Pope Pius XII told Catholic priests, how they were not obliged to submit to civil authorities in whatever country they resigned (Catholic Encyclopaedia, Vol. XIV, pg. 779.) Is this true BA??When the Pope is crowned, the following words are addressed to him:- "Receive this Tiara, adorned with three crowns, and know that Thou art Father of Kings and Princes, Ruler of the World and Vicar of Jesus Christ on earth." At the Coronation of Pope Innocent X, the following words were addressed to him:-- "Most Holy and blessed father, head of the church, ruler of the world, to whom the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven are committed, whom the angels in Heaven adore, and the gates of hell fear, and all the world adores, we especially venerate, worship and adore thee." The name "Holy Father" is found only ONE time in the entire Bible and it refers to God the Father! John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. |
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