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Post by Wasp on Oct 16, 2009 19:50:22 GMT
Well here are a few figures taken from the book lost lives, the figures do not include the murders murders after November 12th 2006. Nor do they include the murders of people where the organisation used cover names or did not admit responsibility even though overwhelming evidence stated different.
From 1969 the ira killed 1768 people and this figure does not include the thousands maimed and injured.
From 1975 (year of their first killings) the inla/iplo killed 151 people.
The inla/iplo were responsible for 4% of all deaths, the ira were responsible for 47.5% and the republican total was 57.8% of all deaths.
On an added note the RUC counted for 1.4%, and the UDR 0.2%, the Irish police 0.1% and the Irish army 0.1%.
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Post by Wasp on Oct 16, 2009 21:21:29 GMT
John Joseph Kavagnagh, catholic 28, father of 2 kids aged 4 and 5, was shot from about 12 inches with a shot to the head and he was the first to be shot by the ira out of many because he was alledgedly an informer.
Harry Edgar 26, labourer, Protestant from Tyrone was killed by the ira in a bomb attack in 1971.
1972 Joseph Forsythe 65, civillian, Protestant killed by an ira bomb in limavady along with another Protestant.
1972 Martha Crawford, civillian, catholic, mother of 10 shot in the head by the ira during a 10 minute ceasefire to allow nuns and workers to be evacuated from a school.
In 1975 during the ira's ceasefire the ira and loyalists carried out a high rate of sectarian killings without the ira acknowledging these murders. In January 1975 a cathjolic school boy aged 7 was killed by an ira bomb as he was bringing home cows.
Febuary 1975, Protestant civillina (milkman) 25 was killed by the ira, one terrorist held him down as the other shot him in the head.
March 1975, Protestant and part time community worker blew up by the ira when they placed a bomb under his car although they were meant to be on a cease fire.
September 1975, Protestant farmer, 80 killed by ira gunmen, along with a 70 yr old Protestant farmer, a 40 yr old Protestant farmer and a 40 yr old Protestant livestock manager.
October 1975 Civillian, Protestant, welder shot by the ira, he was found hooded on a street corner after going looking for work.
November 1975 Portestant farmer killed at his farmhouse by the ira.
December 1975, Protestant civillian 44 was killed alongside Williasm Scott in a no warning inla bomb in the central bar Guilford.
January 1976 10 civillian factory workers, all Protestants gunned down by the ira.
January 1976, Catholic roofer shot by the ira who alledged he was working for loyalists.
January 1976, the son of a UDR man, catholic was shot dead by the ira.
February 1976, brother and sister killed in an ira bomb, both Protestants, they were waved down by a girl at the roadside claiming there had been a car crash. They found a hilman hunter car in a nearby field and as they walked away the bomb went off.
James O'Neil, 17, catholic and member of the ira was found dead next to Gerry Fitts home in a warehouse, it was claimed he was attempting to burn the home of the mp.
March 1976, Protestant 60 killed by the ira when they burst in to a pub and opened fire indiscriminately.
April 1976 Protestant, 64 was one of 3 members of the same family who died after an ira incendiary device. His wife and daughter also died.
May 1976, 2 Protestants killed by the ira, both shot as they worked in the family egg packaging business in Moy.
June 1976, Civillian, Protestant shot dead by the ira as he stood in the celtic supporters club in Lurgan.
October 1982, Protestant, female 20, this Sunday school teacher was shot in the back of the head by an inla gunman.
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Post by Wasp on Oct 16, 2009 22:30:46 GMT
November 1981, Rev. Robert Bradford, Ulster Unionist MP shot dead by the ira at a community centre, an attendant at the cantre, also a Protestant was also killed in the attack. The Dail held a minutes silence over the attack.
February 1982, member of the Garda, catholic, 23 was killed by the inla while searching a flat after an armed robbery.
Protestant schoolboy, 11 yrs old killed and 34 injured in a no warning car bomb in Banbridge by the ira. (This BTW is the same murder that I referred to ages ago when a sf/ira councillor was arrested and questioned concerning another ira attack, when he was told during questioning about the murder he replied did we only get one with a smile).
April 1982, Protestant farmer, 42 was killed by the ira in his farm yard 2miles from the border. 4armed and masked men held his 2 elderly brothers hostage in an adjoining farm the night before. 3 gunmen shot him as he began work and he was found by his 80 yr old mother. The late Harold McCusker said this was an extension to the ira's campaign to eliminate the Protestant community in south Armagh. They have killed many and there only crime was being Protestant and Unionist.
October 1982 the inla carried out a bomb attack on the UUP headquarters.
December 1982 11 soldiers and 6 civillians killed in an inla bomb at a disco in Ballykelly.
Nov 1983 the inla killed 3 worshipers and injured 7 others at a gospel hall.
Nov 1983 the ira kidnapped Don Tidey a supermarket exec. He was rescued but during the gun battle a Garda cadet and an Irish soldier were killed.
April 1984 Mary Travers, Catholic, 22 teacher was shot dead outside St Brigids catholic church as her and her father were leaving midday mass. Her father, a magistrate was seriously injured.
Nov 1987, 11 people killed and 63 people injured by an ira bomb on remembrance day in Enniskillen, a 12th man who remained in a coma for 13 years later died in 2000. All of the dead were Protestants.
July 1998, 3 members of the same family killed by an ira bomb, all were Protestants and the child who was killed was 7yrs old.
September 1989, civillian and German wife of a British soldier was shot dead by the ira in West Germany.
March 1989, 3 Protestant civillians (39, 72, 62) shot dead in Coagh by the ira, one was a garage owner, one a retired lorry driver and one a civillian.
May 1990, 2 lawyers from Australia shot dead in London by the ira.
October 1990, Catholic, civillian became the first 'forced suicide' bomber by the ira. The catholic archbishop of Londonderry Dr Edward Daly said the ira had crossed a new threshold of evil.
May 1991 the ira exploded a large bomb in a Protestant housing estate in Cookstown injuring 13 people and damaging over 100 houses.
June 1991 the ira exploded a 600ib bomb in a Protestant housing estate in Donacloney, Co. Down.
December 1991 2 Protestant civillians were killed by the iplo in a gun attackin a public house in Belfast.
January 1992, 8 Protestant workmen killed by an ira bomb at Teebane crossroads. 6 other workers were badly injured.
April 1992, schoolgirl, 15 killed with 2 others (29 and 49 in an ira bomb in London.
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Post by collina on Oct 19, 2009 13:08:11 GMT
Well here are a few figures taken from the book lost lives, the figures do not include the murders murders after November 12th 2006. Nor do they include the murders of people where the organisation used cover names or did not admit responsibility even though overwhelming evidence stated different. From 1969 the ira killed 1768 people and this figure does not include the thousands maimed and injured. From 1975 (year of their first killings) the inla/iplo killed 151 people. The inla/iplo were responsible for 4% of all deaths, the ira were responsible for 47.5% and the republican total was 57.8% of all deaths. On an added note the RUC counted for 1.4%, and the UDR 0.2%, the Irish police 0.1% and the Irish army 0.1%. And tell us WASP who killed the other 40-odd% of people? Stray beech-balls perhaps? |
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Post by Wasp on Oct 19, 2009 15:25:31 GMT
Well here are a few figures taken from the book lost lives, the figures do not include the murders murders after November 12th 2006. Nor do they include the murders of people where the organisation used cover names or did not admit responsibility even though overwhelming evidence stated different. From 1969 the ira killed 1768 people and this figure does not include the thousands maimed and injured. From 1975 (year of their first killings) the inla/iplo killed 151 people. The inla/iplo were responsible for 4% of all deaths, the ira were responsible for 47.5% and the republican total was 57.8% of all deaths. On an added note the RUC counted for 1.4%, and the UDR 0.2%, the Irish police 0.1% and the Irish army 0.1%. And tell us WASP who killed the other 40-odd% of people? Stray beech-balls perhaps? Tell me Collina did you read the title of the thread, did you see on another thread where we agreed to compare the ira with the inla etc??? Please use less of the sarcasm when you are trying to have a go at me with no justifiable reason whatsoever. That aside its funny that this is the most you have to say concerning what has been posted. The thread title is called 'inla v ira'But to answer your question anyway here are the rest of the figures. The British army 6.5%, the SAS 1.7%, unknown/other 2.4%, loyalist total 29.9% (uvf 14.8%, UDA 11.6%, lvf 0.5%, RHC 0.5%, RHD 0.1%, other loyalists 2.4%) oira 1.5%, rira 0.8%, other republicans 3.9%. Happy now. |
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Post by Wasp on Oct 19, 2009 15:27:00 GMT
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Post by Wasp on Oct 20, 2009 16:10:47 GMT
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Post by collina on Oct 20, 2009 19:30:07 GMT
WASP, could ya please direct me to your thread on UVF v UFF |
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Post by Wasp on Oct 20, 2009 19:37:17 GMT
WASP, could ya please direct me to your thread on UVF v UFF Collina are you really trying to be awkward and act the idiot?? Read through the post I gave a link to, read the thread title about the inla disarming, read the various comments after that, read what setanta said in his last reply etc etc etc. If you think I have a problem posting the uvf v uff then you are very much mistaken. I cant understand why you cant join the debate or ignore the debate without trying to pounce on me by suggesting my unfairness etc especially given all the posts that were said on the given thread. |
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Post by Wasp on Oct 20, 2009 19:43:45 GMT
Setanta after the points made on the other thread I not only posted the deathcount I also added a few of the murders bothsides carried out. Read them, read the actions carried out by both groups and can you say based on what has been posted that the ira are fine and the inla are not? Who carried out the worst and most cowardly murders based on the facts I have given. These BTW are only a start where we can debate them as we go along.
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Post by collina on Oct 20, 2009 22:28:14 GMT
Setanta after the points made on the other thread I not only posted the deathcount I also added a few of the murders bothsides carried out. Read them, read the actions carried out by both groups and can you say based on what has been posted that the ira are fine and the inla are not? Who carried out the worst and most cowardly murders based on the facts I have given. These BTW are only a start where we can debate them as we go along. Well if you want my opinion I'll give it. I can't see any difference between the actions/consequences of any of the loyalist or republican groups. Some people will point out there are differences in scale as I believe WASP is trying to do. There's no difference between Colllins or Adams or Carson for that matter, who threatened both Irish and British democracy with violence should certain acts of parliment be passed. WASP, I'll say this. Leaving bombs in pubs and hotels is cowardly murder. The killing of policemen, civilians and the likes of shooting soldiers (while under the guise of Piza delivery-men) is cowardly murder. Its always cowardly murder. Walking into a pub and shooting dead football fans and all other such actions is cowardly murder . Do you agree? |
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Post by Wasp on Oct 21, 2009 14:04:44 GMT
Of course I agree with what is cowardly murder. You will see from the other thread that I gave you the link to that setanta put pira on a different level from the inla and other republican groups. I have gave some examples of the type of actions the ira carried out and the inla carried out. The only difference between the 2 groups is that the ira has a far superior criminal empire, they killed far more people, they maimed far more people and of all the paramilitary groups they have abused the most children as stated in CAIN.
I am also pointing out that the romantic myth and fantasy setanta and others have about the ira is absolute nonesense and they are no different than the opinion setanta and co have of the inla.
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Post by Blue Angel on Oct 21, 2009 14:21:13 GMT
Basically we are trying to say who is the more acceptable terrorist when we boil it down
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Post by collina on Oct 21, 2009 20:27:19 GMT
Basically we are trying to say who is the more acceptable terrorist when we boil it down Its a bit like that. But the more time goes on the various atrocities seem to blur into one awful vista. I remember the morning (it might have been lunch) we turned on the radio and heard about Enniskillen. I remember everyone went quiet with horror. The same horror that we had when men (by their own volition or not) were allowed to starve themselves to death in a row over the colour and fabric of their clothes. I would have been just as angry if David Ervine had been a hunger striker or if nationalists were killed at the Shankhill bombing. The only difference between Loyalist and Republican murder was scale. We know that because the loyalist credo was " any fenian will do". So we know there was no killing they would hve stopped at. Same as the IRA. |
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Post by Wasp on Oct 21, 2009 21:21:56 GMT
January 2, 1996. Catholic civillian, 31 killed by the ira.
Jan 31, 1996 Catholic, 32 inla member was shot by the inla as he signed on at the Falls social security office. Suspected feud.
June 1997, Jerry McCabe, 52, Garda shot dead by the ira as he sat in an unmarked car. At least 14 shots were fired, his colleague was seriously wounded in the attack. The ira denied any involvement in the attack but later admitted it which was in contrast to general order no. 8 of the ira rule book, it declares that it is strictly forbidden to take any military action against 26 county forces under any circumstances whatsoever.
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