Explain this to me

[An Fear Dubh]

Wasp, you are talking rubbish, now - name the members of the army council that have been nominated as ministers?

[Jim]

SF should not be allowed to sit in government while they represent an armed terrorist organisation, the IRA have publically created the circumstances which allow SF to take up their role. The PUP being in government while the UVF still have weapons is double standards and i can't explain how it is fair cos it isn't.

Its statements like this that get to me the most though. Why shouldnt SF be allowed to sit in Government while they still represent the IRA? Why have standards like that when it doesnt solve anything. Anyone a mandate as big as Sinn Feins should be allowed to sit in Government, doesnt matter who they are or what they have done, thats democracy.

The IRA and the UVF are part of our problems and must be part of our solutions, you cant just say "you represent [so and so] you're not allowed to take your seats" because ultimately they represent the people that voted for them, also, that includes me.

There are very little governments in the world that dont have shady characters but if they get the vote and they can help the people they represent then they have every right to sit in a government they stood to be elected for. Best example of this outside NI is Hamas.

[Wasp]

AFD why am I talking rubbish???

[Harry]

jim said:

SF should not be allowed to sit in government while they represent an armed terrorist organisation, the IRA have publically created the circumstances which allow SF to take up their role. The PUP being in government while the UVF still have weapons is double standards and i can't explain how it is fair cos it isn't.

Its statements like this that get to me the most though. Why shouldnt SF be allowed to sit in Government while they still represent the IRA? Why have standards like that when it doesnt solve anything. Anyone a mandate as big as Sinn Feins should be allowed to sit in Government, doesnt matter who they are or what they have done, thats democracy.

The IRA and the UVF are part of our problems and must be part of our solutions, you cant just say "you represent [so and so] you're not allowed to take your seats" because ultimately they represent the people that voted for them, also, that includes me.

There are very little governments in the world that dont have shady characters but if they get the vote and they can help the people they represent then they have every right to sit in a government they stood to be elected for. Best example of this outside NI is Hamas.

Jim i said represent a fully armed terrorist organisation. Never said they couldn't represent the IRA. I don't want to live in a country which allows people to speak for a group which still has mass amounts of weapons. Democracy doesn't need guns. The IRA have publically created the circumstances where SF can carry out the wishes of their voters and i for one would rather have the IRA talking instead of killing but in the interests of things the IRA had to get rid of weapons or at least indicate it had.

If the PUP want to be taken seriously then the UVF must follow suit

[An Fear Dubh]

I sort of agree with Jim, and feel that an opportunity was lost. There should have been a an Assembly that allowed for the UVF and UDA to be represented. To insist on an electoral mandate might seem more democratic. It is to ignore the reality that there is support for the UDA and UVF.
My own view this was deliberate by the traditional Unionist parties, that recognised they would loose seats/power to the UDA and UVF/PUP. And this is similar to why they also created the red-herring decomissioning.

[An Fear Dubh]

Wasp you are talking rubbish because you can not name the IRA Army Council members that have also been named as Sinn Féin ministers.

[Wasp]

anfeardubh said:

Wasp you are talking rubbish because you can not name the IRA Army Council members that have also been named as Sinn Féin ministers.

oK If you think I am talking rubbish then fair enough, but thousands of people beg to differ.

[Jim]

Fair enough Harry. But I still disagree, the UVF shouldnt need to decomission (ofcourse, I want them too) to be taken seriously because our own "terrorists" are home bred this time, they are the what happens when political instability takes over. But, its for the protestant people to help the UVF decomission, we've done our bit with the 'ra the way I see it and we are reaping the benefits.

I wunt care if the UVF and UDA where in government and held onto weapons and likewise with the IRA, if they where doing a good job and helping the working class with good policies I'd take them over "democratic" right wing governments in a second.

WASP, please name some ministers that are on the current army council, because even I dont know and I'd like to think I know a fair amount about our politics.

[Wasp]

Jim do a quick google search. Maybe both governments and both intelligence agencys have got it wrong, or perhaps AFD knows better because he said I am talking rubbish. He may be able to enlighten us all if both gov and security experts have all got it wrong.

Maybe McGuiness who lied about being in the ira, then admitted to being a member is telling the truth. Although he fell short of calling his accusers in the Irish government liars. Maybe Adams is telling the truth about it all.

[Jim]

No one knows whether Adams or McGuinness where on the army council or not, but I doubt very heavily they are now, and anyone from a republican community should be able to have a good guess at why and how they arent. Its not something you can just pick up off google, no one knows who the army council are apart from what they've wanted to be leaked/let out, or unless you're in the IRA itself.

[mactalla]

Wasp, Jim is correct. There is no way to really be certain about the members of the Army Council, now or in the past.

Is it possible that the Gerrys or Martin have been on it, at one time or another? Of course its possible, perhaps even probable, but I agree with Jim, that it is highly unlikely any of them are current members.

It would just be stupid, and none of these men, whatever you think of them, could ever be labeled, stupid.

[An Fear Dubh]

Wasp said;

Is it fair that members of the ira council have been nominated as ministers etc?

So stop playing the fool and name these people, because we would all like to hear!

[Wasp]

anfeardubh said:

Wasp said;

Is it fair that members of the ira council have been nominated as ministers etc?

So stop playing the fool and name these people, because we would all like to hear!

AFD the wise man can play the fool, but the fool cannot play the wiseman. Can you name them???

Mactalla I understand what you are saying, but again you cannot prove they have left either.

[mactalla]

Mactalla I understand what you are saying, but again you cannot prove they have left either.

Nope, I cannot, but the law of averages is with me.

[An Fear Dubh]

Wasp it was you who pretended that you knew them not me.

So name them if you can!!