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Post by earl on Apr 21, 2009 11:24:52 GMT
Personally, I don't split the threat. There are those who want peace, and those who want a sectarian bar fight. I don't make any distinction between loyalist and republican dissidents. The threat to the peace comes from a combination of both parties.
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Post by Harry on Apr 21, 2009 16:14:44 GMT
Personally i don't see any interest from Loyalism in returning to the old ways. I think we realise that we made mistakes in the past and have no desire to inflict any further suffering. All the signs have been positive with both the UPRG and Beyond Conflict rejecting any notion of retaliation.
I believe the PUP provide sound guidance to the UVF and i believe that the UVF is a much more stable organistaion than the UDA. I feared rogue elements within the UDA could of exploited the situation but they haven't. If for example the dissidents bombed a town centre and ordinary Protestants were killed i fear this would certainly provoke a backlash.
We will wait and see. Loyalism should be assisting the forces of law and order as much as possible. We have had high profile meetings with SF to assure them that there was no threat from within Loyalism. Its strange to say it but omn this i think SF and Loyalism are on the same side. We all reject the dissidents.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 21, 2009 21:09:47 GMT
As it stands loyalists have shown and proved they do not want violence and there stance has to be welcomed and commended. But I believe if these republican attacks continue loyalists will react, well the south Antrim uda IMHO will at least.
Apart from that although I opposes devolution of policing I think it will come between October and March approximately unless of course the alliance hold it up. Not if this happens but when this happens it could cause a reaction from this group but on the other hand it could put further pressure from them to use violence in retalliation to republican attacks.
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Post by Harry on Apr 24, 2009 10:45:12 GMT
Lads if there was more "provocation" as you put it and another PSNI member was killed and the UDA killed a Catholic in retaliation, would you support the UDA's actions? Not in anyway shape or form. |
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Post by Jim on Apr 24, 2009 12:03:29 GMT
Theres always a small chance of threat from loyalists as long as they have access to guns, it doesnt have to be sanctioned by any their leadership for it to happen. I just hope there are no loons up for the job. If it did no doubt it would be from the UDA, as Harry said, the PUP have their heads screwed on and the UVF listen to them.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 24, 2009 13:40:22 GMT
Lads if there was more "provocation" as you put it and another PSNI member was killed and the UDA killed a Catholic in retaliation, would you support the UDA's actions? If they kill a dissident supporter/member etc then I would support it. |
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Post by earl on Apr 24, 2009 13:51:41 GMT
Lads if there was more "provocation" as you put it and another PSNI member was killed and the UDA killed a Catholic in retaliation, would you support the UDA's actions? If they kill a dissident supporter/member etc then I would support it. So you support terror groups? |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 24, 2009 15:36:27 GMT
That is to simplistic Earl. First of all my political thinking concerning N.Ireland has changed and much of that comes from this very forum. If a group stands up to these dissidents while they carry out further attacks and they target those who are part of the dissident set up then I would fully support it.
I do not want that to happen, I do not want anyother family to lose a loved one but if dissidents continue then they must be met with force not pussy footing around them. When they know they themselves are targets then they may think again about continuing their violence.
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Post by earl on Apr 24, 2009 16:50:29 GMT
That is to simplistic Earl. First of all my political thinking concerning N.Ireland has changed and much of that comes from this very forum. If a group stands up to these dissidents while they carry out further attacks and they target those who are part of the dissident set up then I would fully support it. I do not want that to happen, I do not want anyother family to lose a loved one but if dissidents continue then they must be met with force not pussy footing around them. When they know they themselves are targets then they may think again about continuing their violence. So say group A goes out and kills some people. How can you know that they only killed dissidents? If they killed dissidents one week, and some innocent people were also killed, would you still support the group? Would your support for the group vary from day to day depending on how many innocent people were killed on any particular day? If members of this group were arrested and rightly charged with murder, no matter who they had killed, would you agree with that sentence? |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 24, 2009 20:39:31 GMT
If they kill a dissident supporter/member etc then I would support it. and if that non-republican Catholic father you spoke about on the other thrend got shot because his son was a Bebo Supporter, how would you react? Setanta before putting those questions to me just remember you and others refused to condemn the abduction of a mother of 10 who was dragged from her home infront of her kids, you refused to condemn any ira atrocity so dont get on your high horse with me. Now to answer your question I made it plain what I would support and I have made my position clear here and elsewhere concerning loyalist targets and I have had never any problem condemning loyalist actions. Anyone who harbours/supports/aids or are members of republican terror groups are targets which I would support if and when the time came for retalliation. |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 24, 2009 20:43:32 GMT
I explained above the answer to this.
I would be the first to condemn the killing of anyone who did not belong/supprot/aid/sympathize with any republican terror group.
I think you are trying to put me into a corner to nicpik my answers Earl, if any loyalist group carried out constant attacks against perfectly innocent people then they would lose my complete support and I would utterly condemn the first attack on an innocent if it were to happen. Hope thats plain enough.
Again to simplistic.
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Post by collina on Apr 25, 2009 16:50:20 GMT
and if that non-republican Catholic father you spoke about on the other thrend got shot because his son was a Bebo Supporter, how would you react? I would condemen them for it WASP Now to answer your question I made it plain what I would support and I have made my position clear here and elsewhere concerning loyalist targets and I have had never any problem condemning loyalist actions. Anyone who harbours/supports/aids or are members of republican terror groups are targets which I would support if and when the time came for retalliation. Well doesn't that make everyone in a Loyalist or Republican areas targets for retribution? What due process do you think such a target of Loyalist Paramilitaries should get? |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 25, 2009 17:09:09 GMT
I would have guessed you would have.
Not sure I know what you mean.
By that do you mean what action should be taken against them.
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Post by collina on Apr 25, 2009 19:49:47 GMT
I would have guessed you would have. Not sure I know what you mean. By that do you mean what action should be taken against them. Do you believe its legitimate for paramilaries to attack CIRA/RIRA supporters without giving the intended victim the benifit of due process? |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 25, 2009 20:26:04 GMT
Yes. First of all I hope that it never comes to that but I believe that if republican terror groups continue then loyalists will react in retalliation. If the people that support these republican terror groups who applaud their sectarian attacks, applaud and cheer attacks against the British then these same people are legitimate targets and they will know how it feels to be on the receiving end.
But I do hope its the likes of duffy that get it first instead of supporters because it wont be murder it will be poetic justice..
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