sinn fein/ira and the nazis

[Blue Angel]

yeah i'd say there's a fair element of truth in that - his thinking never seemed to get much beyond slagging of the british at points -i've read a fair bit of his work and not found much warmth in it at as a whole.

[Wasp]

But Dublin is the only city and sinn fein are the only part apart from facists to go to a monument and commemorate a nazi collaborator. I am sure hitler had pics taken with many people, but when any British party goes to a monument and commemorates/celebrates a nazi collaborator please inform us. Your party does it and you support that commemoration.

BTW what do you make of the link I provided that you accused me of getting my info from loyalist sites??? You will see he is far from a loyalist. No comment so far yet you constantly reminded me that I did not post a link to his site. You now have it and silence is all I am getting.

[Wasp]

setanta said:

That "War Journel" arrical is a plain lie and I dispute it's autenticity based on the fact that it is not recorded on any mainstream political or historical sites anywhere.

So those who done their research are liars, yet republicans are honest in there research. So again if their is no recording of this then it is lies. Does the same go for any republican artical? I am quite sure these people with no loyalist agenda whatsoever done their thorough research becasue they would have known republicans would try and deny it all and continue with their fantasy version of history.

Is history Ireland not a credible source?

At the end of the day you belong to a party with a history of terrrorism and criminality, you belong to a party filled with criminals and terrorists, a party that was part of the terrorist organisation that killed many Irish people both north and south, many British people, committed untold horrors, abducted men AND women most if not all of which were tortured and executed and not forgetting members of the gardai that they killed.

So who would any normal person believe, sources with no agenda and never involved in violence or the republican think tank and propoganda machine???

[Wasp]

Now I know you don't bother to read the links and plough on regardless.
There's a pic of a Statue of Edward in one of them links plus testimonys on his pro-Nazi Views.
Seeing as you can't be arsed to read the links I'll post the picture.
It also tells me that you couldn't care less about anything I have to say or anything the mainstream history sites have to say.

Not true at all setanta. BTW what commemorations and what parties attend them for the statue of Edward?

You haven't linked to History Ireland WASP, you haven't linked to any British or Irish viable, trustworthy Politicial or Historical site.

WTF I named history Ireland and I also gave you the link of the site that I had being searching for. Take it up with history Ireland, you said you would contact them or else buy the book. What is wrong with the other link?

Now are you going to answer any of the questions I asked? It's all very well to mouth of about Nazis and blah blah blah, but lets see you back the assertions you made.

I thought I did.

btw I thought you'd got the stuff from a Loyalist site because when I googled sections of what you posted only Loyalists sites and not the Mark Humphy's site where on the first two pages of links.

ok, It's a very good site.

and WASP you have your views on Sinn Féin but 350,000 voters agree with me. How many agree with you?

I would say millions and plenty of governments as well as many former republicans or former ira members who were sickened by their violence. I am surprized you ask that, even your own government cannot stomach sinn fein. I really am surprized because millions of people at home and abroad have similar opinions.

[Wasp]

Setanta you can accuse me of whatever you want. Now I will ask again what is wrong with the Humphries link/site?

I have given links and named those who said anything to do with the ira and the nazis, its all there but it is you who would rather not read these or just deny it.

I am surprized at you avoiding this, maybe it is because it is me who has made my points backed by links to viable trustworthy sites.

BTW was Edward a nazi collaborator like Russell was?

[He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness]

jim said:

I've read that book.

Arthur griffith was indeed very anti-semetic, as were many many people in his time, for the period of history it was commonly accepted to be anti-semetic. Arthur griffith was also a pleb that ended up losing control of most of "his" party at the end of the day.

The father of Sinn Fein, are you having a laug, his idea of republicanism and of Sinn Fein was very different, he only changed his mind when he knew what he wanted wasnt achievable.

Sinn Fein are not an out and out red socialist party, thats what the IRSP are for, Sinn Fein are without a doubt a leftist party though, or there wouldn't be Sinn Fein protests up on Red-watch, would there?!

www.redwatch.org.uk/ulster1.html

What was the name of the party he started?

[Wasp]

Well he has many links from his site including a link to sinn fein's website and loads of other links where he gets his info. So he backs up much of what he says. According to some of the writers that I posted from some members of the ira were interested in the nazis. I would say anyone who collaborates with the nazis while the rest of the free democratic world fight them is proof enough that they were interested in them and that isn't even including the war news or the welcoming of the nazis to the shores of the republic. I think that conflicts much of what you say.

[Jim]

Wasp do you seriously believe Russell believed in German Nazism?

Would be a bit odd since hes not German. Would be like you following pan-arabism or something.

[Wasp]

That is not exactly what I am saying

[Blue Angel]

Oh Jesus we're not on this topic still tonight are we. You know this topic was up on my mates telly earlier as he and his missus have a whacking great 50 inch LCD telly in the front room that the pc is wired to and i wanted to show them where my girlfriend comes from originally so we fired up the pc and we found them a couple of sites showing her native city in eastern Russia. Anyway, since my friend's wife was making the dinner I thought I'd pop in here while chatting to the other two - trying to explain this particular topic to a russian girlfriend, my mates wife who is one quarter russian and three quarters chinese and to my mate who is not politica at alll by nature was hilarious. Best moment was the girlfriend commenting, 'but you are irish republican and are not anti-semitic so what is all this about?'

On balance I decided it was a lost cause and we decided to use the screen to look at various holiday photos instead of my mates trip to Spain.

There are things I could say on this thread but I think I've said them in the past and it's just not worth me repeating them. People will choose what they wish to believe and the folk myths and nonsense talked about Ireland and WW2 could fill endless volumes and I can't be arsed to always correct them.

[Wasp]

So BA all these other people who have researched on these subjects and have no other agenda connected to Unionists are all wrong but you are right?

[Blue Angel]

just becuase someone does not have an agenda connected to unionism does not mean they lack an agenda and personally i am beginning as i've said before when this came up to find this topic odious. The implication that myself who is going to marry someone from a family with a Jewish background in part of her family tree would ever support anti-semitic nonsense either historically or now annoys me. Sure If I were in the IRA then I'd take guns of ANYONE offering them and unionists took guns of enemies of Britian themselves - the IRA never claimed to be loyal to Britain at least did it as it was always a force oppossed to Britiain been In Ireland.

There seems to be still a distinct confusion as well in the minds of unionist as to the difference between the Irish govt. and IRA of the day. Two frequently they seem to form one homogenous mass in the minds of people commenting on these issues and here is my opinion on Ireland's role in WW2. Ireland was under NO obligation to help Britain in any way, shape or form and to expect it to do so would show a distinct disregard for what were then recent events. Retrospectively you can say the horrors of the third reich meant all states who were run on more enligthened lines should have fought but that is to use 20/20 hindsight. If you want a site which is irish republican and is Fascist though here you go :- irish-nationalism.net/forum/

[He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness]

blueangel said:

just becuase someone does not have an agenda connected to unionism does not mean they lack an agenda and personally i am beginning as i've said before when this came up to find this topic odious. The implication that myself who is going to marry someone from a family with a Jewish background in part of her family tree would ever support anti-semitic nonsense either historically or now annoys me. Sure If I were in the IRA then I'd take guns of ANYONE offering them and unionists took guns of enemies of Britian themselves - the IRA never claimed to be loyal to Britain at least did it as it was always a force oppossed to Britiain been In Ireland.

There seems to be still a distinct confusion as well in the minds of unionist as to the difference between the Irish govt. and IRA of the day. Two frequently they seem to form one homogenous mass in the minds of people commenting on these issues and here is my opinion on Ireland's role in WW2. Ireland was under NO obligation to help Britain in any way, shape or form and to expect it to do so would show a distinct disregard for what were then recent events. Retrospectively you can say the horrors of the third reich meant all states who were run on more enligthened lines should have fought but that is to use 20/20 hindsight. If you want a site which is irish republican and is Fascist though here you go :- irish-nationalism.net/forum/

actually the free state government was under a obligation to help the UK under the terms of the treaty in the form of the treaty ports.

[He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness]

"Mussolini, editor and proprietor of the 'Popolo d'Italia', is a thoroughgoing friend and supporter of ours due to the influence of Mme. Vivanti, with whom I called upon him. I thanked him on behalf of the Republic for his support which seemed to please him greatly. He promised to give us the fullest support possible at all times provided with supplied him with the necessary material. Since I saw him he has published about six different articles from stuff I have sent him and on each occasion he has printed his articles under big headlines similar to the samples enclosed." - Seán T. Ó Ceallaigh following a Sinn Féin mission to Italy, September 1920

[Blue Angel]

The treaty ports were RETURNED before the outbreak of World War 2 in 1938 so your point is irrelevant as by the outbreak of hostilities Ireland had no binding agreements of any kind in regards to British defence. In any case the ports were seriously neglected and the best use that could have been made of them without serious overhauling was defence via the artillery batteries fitted in the forts and cliffs around them. This was the use the Irish army would have put them to in the event of an invasion as the ones in Cork in particular had high calibre guns overlooking the site of possible landings. The actual plan would have been to block the harbour by deliberately scuttling ships and holding out as long as possible after that in the event of either British OR German forces attempting to land. I notice my grammar and spelling slipped in my long post above as I wrote it in a hurry after waking up late after a long trip home the previous night, apologies for that to those trying to read it. And I fail to see to the point of your last post unless you presume Sean T.O. Ceallaigh had a TARDIS amongst his available equipment and could pop forward in time and see what was to happen over the next 25 years under both Italian and German Fascist regimes. You are applying eagle-eye hindsight.