Brian Boru was a Scot...............

[leeside]

...........according to our good and knowledgeable friends over at Calton. Appartently, we (nationalists) are 'twisting history to suit ourselves' as regards Brian Boru. According to one well informed poster, Brian Boru: had his name inscribed in the Book of Armagh(11th century) as Imperatoris Scotorum that is: Emperor of the Scots"

[earl]

Sweet Jeebus. I wonder how many of those folk have third level degrees in history?

[Republic]

I think their aim is to discredit nationalist interpretations of history in the hope that it will somehow destroy the credibility of claims for irish unity.

They are under the impression that Irish desire for self-determination is based on historic reasons alone.

Even if their claims are sometimes true, I fail to see how it makes self-determination for Irish people any less credible.
Are Irish people not entitled to hope for unity, regardless of history?

I find it a bit sickening to read that site. There is much bitterness about foreigners coming to live in the UK yet on other threads the same posters praise the empire and desire a return to the days when British and Irish people went to foreign countries to plunder their natural resources.

[Jim]

Maybe he was a celtic fan, too.

[leeside]

Another quote from the same faecal-feline poster as regards her claim is......... "Brian Boru was not a great 'Irish' hero that the nationalists have been taught to believe. "

Brian Boru wasn't even Irish!!!


Now, this annoyed me quite a bit so I decided to do some research. I first checked Wikipedia and got the following:

It is recorded in the 'Book of Armagh' that, in the year 1005, Brian donated twenty-two ounces of gold to the monastery and declared that Armagh was the religious capital of Ireland to which all other monasteries should send the funds they collected. This was a clever move, for the supremacy of the monastery of Armagh would last only so long as Brian remained the High King. Therefore, it was in the interest of Armagh to support Boru with all their wealth and power. It is also interesting that Boru is not referred to in the passage from the 'Book of Armagh' as the 'Ard Ri' – that is, High-King – but rather he is declared "Emperatus Hibernium," or "Emperor of the Irish."

However, as we all know, Wikipedia is controlled by the IRA who use it as a tool to misinform the world about Irish history. So, that wont do. That's not evidence enough. So i had to do better. I contacted Trinity college by email where the Book of Armagh resides and put the following question to the librarian at the manuscripts department:



Dear Sir/Madam,
please can you confirm to me if in the Book of Armagh the inscription in relation to Brian Boru says 'Emperatus Hibernium' (Emperor of the Irish) or '' Emperatus Scotorum' (Emperor of the Scots). I would be very grateful if you could confirm which one it is.

yours

xxxxxxxxxxxxx



The next day I got the following reply:



Dear Mr xxxxxxxx

Thank you for your e-mail of 8 January.

The inscription in relation to Brian Boru reads 'Emperatus Hibernium'.


Yours sincerely,

Caoimhe Ní Ghormáin


CAOIMHE NÍ GHORMÁIN
Assistant Librarian
Manuscripts Department
Trinity College Library
College Street
Dublin 2



Case closed as far as I'm concerned but it did make me wonder how the hell someone could be so mis-informed. Then i saw the link from Calton

www.reformation.org/history1.html

This link not only claims the above bullshit about Brian Boru inscribing Emperor of the Scots next to his name but it also hints at the Scots being the lost tribe of Israel.


Our smug faecal-feline friend has some cheek claiming "....that's just the usual nationalist 'twisting history to suit themselves' tosh"........ as regards Irish peoples interpretation of the history of Brian Boru when here she is spouting absolute horseshit that she learned from some ridiculously ill-informed and agenda driven 'history resource' website and claiming it as fact.

Fucking muppet

[bearhunter]

Phew, well I had considered commenting on this, but Leeside has said all that needs to be said. Well done.

[earl]

Looks like you had a Jessica Fletcher moment there Leeside! That crowd of British Israelites are the most twisted cult I've come across in recent times. Digging around the hill of Tara, looking for the Ark of the covenant has to be their crowning moment. Maybe instead of reading rubbish from less than reputable sites, they should apply for open university courses in history.

[Blue Angel]

part of the problem is that since the word scot was used in the middle ages to mean someone from ireland also at times that they retroactively try and attach the modern meaning to the word.

[bearhunter]

Have you read the other tripe on that reformation website? Apparently, Columbus didn't discover the New World and the sun travels around the earth. Who knew?

[earl]

Sure the whole idea of nationalism didn't really grip these islands until Edward Longshanks started the Invasion of Wales and war with Scotland in the late 1200's.

[Republic]

earl said:

Sure the whole idea of nationalism didn't really grip these islands until Edward Longshanks started the Invasion of Wales and war with Scotland in the late 1200's.

Even then Earl, it was a very different kind of nationalism to what we have today.
Irish 'nationalists' in the 16th/17th centuries aimed to replace the English monarchy with a continental one. There was no talk of an independent Ireland, which I suppose was understandable in those days.

[Jim]

Since the fall of Rome, Republicanism was an unknown word for centuries, very few countries would have tried to achieve it and Irish nationalists of the day went along with ideas of the day, that monarchs are there to exist.

It hardly reflects todays nationalism or even common identidy. How many people in the south would say they only band toghether under "nationalism" because their greatx10 granda was a viking that liked the place?

[Blue Angel]

even into the 20th century irish nationalism still had traces of monarchist feeling attached to it- remember sinn fein was a monarchist party originally as Griffiths wanted to emulate the Hungarians and have the king as the King of Ireland and the King of Britain as two completely seperate entities as had been done in the Austro-Hungarian empire with their emperor. If you ever read Griffiths, 'Ressurection of Hungary', (which I don't really recommend as it's full of purple prose and is a bit of a slog) you can see him working out and explaining his ideas.

[Republic]

On a side note, the countess strikes me as being a bit of cowardly bitch.

[Blue Angel]

hmmm I'd be interested to see how you reach that conclusion wasp- eccentric, arrogant at times yep- but cowardly is definitely not a word i'd have used about her.