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Post by Wasp on May 15, 2008 22:41:26 GMT
The English police are very experienced deailing with soccer violence and after listening to fans who condemned the violence earlier I have to say I agree totally with Bilk here.
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Post by Jim on May 15, 2008 23:15:56 GMT
A scottish tory councillor tried to crack the same thing he'll end up retracting the statement if he hasnt done so already after seeing footage. This isnt Belfast, the English police have very little experience of this shite compared to the RUC/PSNI, especially the GMP where almsot all sporting events hosted by Manchester go off without much bother.. considering we have two premiership clubs and are next door to another two. He will have to, he's a Scottish tory councilor, I'm not and I'm retracting nothing I have just said. So it's ok to deploy riot police against prods in Manchester, but not against Catholics/nationalists/shinneres in Belfast. This smacks way too much of double standards to me. And do the riot police come out in force at these other events you are talking about in Manchester? So, am I getting this right? The GMP were stupid in deploying riot police in this situation, due to their lack of experience, but the RUC were just bigots who knew better but just did it anyway to annoy the nationalists. Ah I see silly of me not to see and understand that. WHAT are you on about mate? Riot squad being put out in Belfast are against demonstrations, they're political. Having a riot squad ready in Manchester, waiting incase football related violence, from a support fucking notorious for it, is a completely different story. |
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Post by Jim on May 15, 2008 23:24:47 GMT
The English police are very experienced deailing with soccer violence and after listening to fans who condemned the violence earlier I have to say I agree totally with Bilk here. The English police don't exist, they are split into regions and are pretty much independant of each other. The London police have experience in dealing with football violence, they have well over 10 clubs with about 5 that were very steeped in hooliganism. The Greater Manc police don't. United fans are generally well behaved, City fans are generally well behaved and there has been very little spats between them over the years, most trouble has happened outside of Manchester, mainly in Europe. Bolton, Wigan, and other North-west clubs that arent part of Merseyside don't have the support to be a problem. |
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Post by Harry on May 16, 2008 6:42:50 GMT
So Jim just for you we will not deal with facts. You want to increase the shame on the RFC fans. You don't want me to use % because it truly shows how small the amount of idiots were. You don't like the fact that at least 98% of the Rangers fans were well behaved. That equates to around 98,000 people. English police are better equipped to deal with football violence than any other police force in the world. That is why English football has cleaned up dramatically. You only have to look accross Europe and see the weekly trouble that takes place and you can see that the Police lack intelligence on troublemakers. Man Utd fans and Man City fans are well behaved??? This is your justification for the GMP not being experienced for the trouble. www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/football-arreststatistics-2007?view=BinaryYou will see that Man Utd fans are amongst the worst and City aren't far behind. Lets stick to facts Jim. I watched the lady Police officer on TV explaining her disgust at the actions of fans. Her exact words were 200 fans chasing Police. 200 fans is 200 too many but in context to the amount of fans who were there it is so tiny. You don't want to deal with facts. I also fully agree with Bilk in regards to republican attitude and the complete U turns they are capable of. I have no problem with the police being in riot gear. maybe they shouldn't of been but the actions of the minority proved them right. Whether the riot gear help cause it is open to arguement but can't be an excuse for what we saw. |
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Post by earl on May 16, 2008 9:33:08 GMT
I'd have to agree with Harry in relation to the numbers involved. I've only heard anyone saying that it was a couple of hundred. Even if it was 1000 fans, that's still 1% of those that traveled.
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Post by Jim on May 16, 2008 14:25:58 GMT
So Jim just for you we will not deal with facts. You want to increase the shame on the RFC fans. You don't want me to use % because it truly shows how small the amount of idiots were. You don't like the fact that at least 98% of the Rangers fans were well behaved. That equates to around 98,000 people. English police are better equipped to deal with football violence than any other police force in the world. That is why English football has cleaned up dramatically. You only have to look accross Europe and see the weekly trouble that takes place and you can see that the Police lack intelligence on troublemakers. Man Utd fans and Man City fans are well behaved??? This is your justification for the GMP not being experienced for the trouble. www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/football-arreststatistics-2007?view=BinaryYou will see that Man Utd fans are amongst the worst and City aren't far behind. Lets stick to facts Jim. I watched the lady Police officer on TV explaining her disgust at the actions of fans. Her exact words were 200 fans chasing Police. 200 fans is 200 too many but in context to the amount of fans who were there it is so tiny. You don't want to deal with facts. I also fully agree with Bilk in regards to republican attitude and the complete U turns they are capable of. I have no problem with the police being in riot gear. maybe they shouldn't of been but the actions of the minority proved them right. Whether the riot gear help cause it is open to arguement but can't be an excuse for what we saw. Considering the reaction amongst Mancunians I wouldn't be the only one wanting to put more shame on RFC. I said it already, I hope people had a good day, but we didn't invite 100,000 drunken scots down to riot in our streets. 200 people is a lot of people, 1000 people is a lot of people, doesnt matter if its a crowd of 2000 or one million. % mean fuck all because they take the context out, that only because 2 or 3% rioted it seems to make it ok, that its not so bad. If you saw the state of the fucking city center you would know what I mean, it took more than a handful of people to do that, so it doesnt matter what percentage of people done it, fact is they did. English police are soft touches mate, not in the football grounds themselves but once things spill out onto the street and there are so many people they can't handle it without being criticised, or would you rather they do to Rangers fans what happened to Utd supporters in Rome? Even I don't want to see that. In Manchester, Utd and City fans are well behaved, or have you never saw the importance both teams put on their city, particularly City, the pride they have of the city, they aren't going to go out and wreck the place. I mean, lets be honest, we're about to go into Europe for the first time in ages because of our well behaved support, itll be what has us beat Fulham for the spot. I can stick with facts, I can go with reputations, and I can go with what I fucking saw myself, and heard from mates all over the city as far up as Wythenshawe and as away as Salford. You're trying to defend your club but facts is they fucking wrecked the place. Weither it was 1% or 10% or 50% it doesnt matter, other clubs don't do that when they come here, not nearly on the same scale. |
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Post by Harry on May 16, 2008 15:45:25 GMT
Ok so you don't want to deal with facts in relations to the numbers. Fine. I know Jim what the scummy bastards done. I'm making no excuse for their behaviour. I'm pointing out for the fucking 4th time that at least 98,000 supporters attended Manchester and behaved and enjoyed themselves. I'm accepting the damage that was done to the name of RFC. I don't really support RFC, i just hate dirty Celtic. My sister was there at picadilly. She was allowed into the park at 1915. She travelled to manchester as she knew their would be big screens. Fans were allowed to drink all day in the streets. Thousands of people there to watch the big screen and watch their team in the biggest game of their life and the fucking screen fails. Drunk and then unable to watch the game. recipe for disaster. She saw the last 5 mins of the game at her hotel room. She also said she saw no police in riot gear before the trouble so that pours questions over claims Police were out for trouble. I don't but that at all. Fact is people were upset and frustrated and they reacted appallingly. English Police are soft touches?? WTF. You've been in England a year or 2 and you know the lot  |
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Post by earl on May 16, 2008 15:51:41 GMT
There's only one team I support, and Harry's with me on that one. Rangers and Celtic can go Fcuk themselves.
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Post by Harry on May 16, 2008 15:53:45 GMT
There's only one team I support, and Harry's with me on that one. Rangers and Celtic can go Fcuk themselves.  ;D ;D |
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Post by Bilk on May 16, 2008 16:06:18 GMT
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Post by Harry on May 16, 2008 16:17:51 GMT
Interesting but it seems to want blame anyone but the Scots. Northern Irish and English accents The Scots don't like to think that they have behaved just like the English Hooligans they always slate ;D |
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Post by Bilk on May 16, 2008 16:33:18 GMT
Interesting but it seems to want blame anyone but the Scots. Northern Irish and English accents The Scots don't like to think that they have behaved just like the English Hooligans they always slate ;D It was more the bit about the riot police I concentrated on ;D but yeah they can be as racist as the rest of us when they want to be ;D |
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Post by Blue Angel on May 16, 2008 16:43:13 GMT
This was reported on heavily in the Russian media while I was there -the public perception of Britain (remember to them the difference between Scottish, Welsh, Northern Island etc. is largely lost) generated by the whole process was very negative - there is a VERY strong image of British football fans there as been troublesome (some teams in Russia also have notorious fans like Millwall say does here btw) and the reaction from some locals who were chatting to us was that had they started up in the city we were in he would have readily supported the use of armed police to shut them down. The police in Russia while not the heavy handed gangsters of popular repute are closer to an army than a police force we would recognise. The thugs who carry on like this damage their own countries reputation elsewhere but considering their likely IQ I doubt that worrries them too much.
I think the minority of fans reflect badly on the team but I do not think that it is fair to lablel all supporters as a result. Let us on the nationalist/republican side bear in mind that when the LoveUlster march collapsedi n disaster we pointed out that a minority of small minded thugs led to that result - here again this would seem to be the case and a few hundred people can do a lot of damage as I have been accidentally caught in riot situations on three occassions (most frighteningly the polll tax riots here where I was only going to meet my mum who worked near the main shopping street) and the damage I have seen a few hundred people cause on one of those occassions was terrific.
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Post by earl on May 16, 2008 16:48:46 GMT
That's surely more than a coincidence, you rabble rouser you!
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Post by Bilk on May 16, 2008 16:49:51 GMT
This was reported on heavily in the Russian media while I was there -the public perception of Britain (remember to them the difference between Scottish, Welsh, Northern Island etc. is largely lost) generated by the whole process was very negative - there is a VERY strong image of British football fans there as been troublesome (some teams in Russia also have notorious fans like Millwall say does here btw) and the reaction from some locals who were chatting to us was that had they started up in the city we were in he would have readily supported the use of armed police to shut them down. The police in Russia while not the heavy handed gangsters of popular repute are closer to an army than a police force we would recognise. The thugs who carry on like this damage their own countries reputation elsewhere but considering their likely IQ I doubt that worrries them too much. I think the minority of fans reflect badly on the team but I do not think that it is fair to lablel all supporters as a result. Let us on the nationalist/republican side bear in mind that when the LoveUlster march collapsedi n disaster we pointed out that a minority of small minded thugs led to that result - here again this would seem to be the case and a few hundred people can do a lot of damage as I have been accidentally caught in riot situations on three occassions (most frighteningly the polll tax riots here where I was only going to meet my mum who worked near the main shopping street) and the damage I have seen a few hundred people cause on one of those occassions was terrific. Some sense reigns at last  |
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;D ;D