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Post by An Fear Dubh on Apr 1, 2007 23:27:31 GMT
No Leeside of course I do not know that as fact.
But nor am I stupid enough or niave enough to suggest that Catholics might have brought them in. Let us live in the real world please. Wasp is not even suggesting that Catholics brought those flags in, at least he is being honest.
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Post by An Fear Dubh on Apr 1, 2007 23:39:43 GMT
Wasp - I take your point about all clubs having problems. And I agree all clubs do have problems and that on the whole these problems are caused by people who have little interest in the match being played, and that usually they are a minority group.
I just feel that at Windsor Park there is a lot more work that needs to be done. I know people who have attended international matches there for a number of years. But they go in pretending to be Protestant, I think that is sad and wrong. And if we continue to brush such issues under the carpet they will breed and grow, we must not pretend that we do not have big problems or that these problems are only small. They need to be dragged out into the daylight and exposed. What would happen to southern registrated cars parked around Windsor if the South was playing there? Yes, I can get my car window smashed in Dublin at Croke Park. But would it be on the same scale?
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Post by leeside on Apr 1, 2007 23:48:41 GMT
No Leeside of course I do not know that as fact. But nor am I stupid enough or niave enough to suggest that Catholics might have brought them in. Let us live in the real world please. Wasp is not even suggesting that Catholics brought those flags in, at least he is being honest. So, I'm stupid and niave for suggesting that Catholics might have brought in those flags. Why, thanks bud  If everything you are saying about Windsor Park is true then what a sorry state of affairs NI football finds itself in. |
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Post by An Fear Dubh on Apr 2, 2007 0:01:09 GMT
And that is the point I am trying to make to you and to Wasp. NI football is in a sorry state of affairs in regards to support at Windsor Park. The sooner the stadium at the Maze gets built the sooner progress can be begin to be made. It is difficult to make progress when Windsor Park in situated in a front-line interface community. Because of course there are deep seated fears frustrations and elements from the old ways in that community.
But we need to recognise these reasons and accept the reality and try not to pretend otherwise and to brush them away as a unwanted minority is not to address the causes.
And yes you are stupid and niave to suggest that Catholics brought those flags. But according to your profile you do not live here and there is no reason to suggest that you might understand the reality of living on the ground. I am sorry if that sounds offensive but no one from Belfast would have made such a suggestion.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 2, 2007 0:01:21 GMT
Wasp - I take your point about all clubs having problems. And I agree all clubs do have problems and that on the whole these problems are caused by people who have little interest in the match being played, and that usually they are a minority group. I just feel that at Windsor Park there is a lot more work that needs to be done. I know people who have attended international matches there for a number of years. But they go in pretending to be Protestant, I think that is sad and wrong. And if we continue to brush such issues under the carpet they will breed and grow, we must not pretend that we do not have big problems or that these problems are only small. They need to be dragged out into the daylight and exposed. What would happen to southern registrated cars parked around Windsor if the South was playing there? Yes, I can get my car window smashed in Dublin at Croke Park. But would it be on the same scale? AFD I have been at windsor several times and I have never ever had to show that I am a Protestant or some of those with me had to pretend to be Protestants. That could not be further from the truth. My first international game was when I was in my early teens and I went with a Catholic family who were friends of our family. The man even paid my ticket, and not once did I see them pretend to be anything other than N.Irelan supporters which they certainly were with no pretending about it. Now if someone stops you and asks what religion you are then I understand the pretending bit, but I nor any of my friends ever experienced having to pretend or show that you were Protestant. Not once, not ever. How exactly do you pretend to be Protestant? Those people that you know that claim to pretend to be Protestant, I take it then they are N.Ireland supporters who are obviously Catholics and maybe even nationalist, yet they have been going for a number of years. This would back up the fact that many Catholics support N.Ireland. |
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Post by Wasp on Apr 2, 2007 0:06:28 GMT
If I said AFD that a Catholic brought a red hand of Ulster flag onto a supporters bus, tried to put it up along the back window and was told by Protestants on the bus to take it down would you believe me? (this was on the motorway) Would you believe me if I told you that the same person got slagged rotten by both Protestants and Catholics on the bus, all in harmless banter along the lines of turncoat and we don't want him, you have him back etc? Would you believe me although this person is not political he comes from a staunch nationalist background where his family are all sdlp supporters?
This is the same guy who has got me interested again in N.ireland football team, has taught me the songs and he goes to all home games and most away games.
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Post by An Fear Dubh on Apr 2, 2007 0:45:25 GMT
What can I say Wasp, I can not dispute any of those things because they are your personal experiences. And I must assume you are telling the truth as you see it.
But as reported in the news in various sources and as you yourself highlighted from the Linfield FC website, there is a problem with sectarianism at Winsor Park. And while I accept you can not tar everyone with this sectarian brush, the scale of that sectarianism is dissportionate to all other grounds in the north.
We must not just brush it away and pretend that is so small and insignificant we must address the root cause of the problem, and begin to tackle them. The first step is like an alcoholic admit to the problem.
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Post by leeside on Apr 2, 2007 0:58:08 GMT
You're right, I've never been to Windsor Park and shouldn't make such naive suggestions. I should listen to those who have seen and experienced it for themselves.
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Post by Wasp on Apr 2, 2007 9:47:37 GMT
What about the brandywell and solitude?
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Post by ulster2016 on Apr 17, 2007 18:50:37 GMT
In 1985 and then again in 1987 Irish Republican terrorists placed car bombs close to Windsor Park in Belfast. The target on both occasions was the Northern Ireland v England games,
Actions like this I feel created a "Sectarian" feeling for many years within Windsor and the Unionist community.
THANK GOD....anyone who has been to Windsor Park in the past 5 years will testify the current FAMILY atmosphere and the absence of Sectarianism. A family atmosphere enjoyed by both Catholic and Protestant families alike.
Some of the previous posts are clinging on.. in a past almost forgotten era.
England in Croke Park, and the playing of the British and Northern Ireland National Anthem, surely you must agree Irish Terrorism is now well gone.
Politics is now the NEW PLAYGROUND
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Post by Wasp on Apr 17, 2007 20:43:27 GMT
Good points ulster2016 on the car bombs at windsor. The ira tried to blow our country's sporting venue apart as well as targeting a game where the 'motherland' team were playing.
People were probably fed up to the teeth with republican violence and when they targeted our home ground which also hosts a club with a large Unionist following is it any wander some of the songs that were sung were sang at games.Yet people wander why there was sectartian tensions at Windsor. This just proves it wasn't all the big bad Proddies fault afterall.
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Post by bearhunter on Apr 17, 2007 22:27:36 GMT
No, WASP, of course it was the Nationalists' fault. Out of nowhere and for no reason whatsoever, the ungrateful beggars conjured up the IRA to give the kindly, caring, sharing Unionists lackery which was utterly, utterly uncalled for. What a lovely vision of the past you have, WASP, all roses and fluffy clouds, back in the day when the Nationalists were grateful to be just allowed to dwell in teh same wee paradise as their betters.
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Post by ulster2016 on Apr 17, 2007 22:42:44 GMT
I am taking exception to the COMMENTS of BEERHUNTER
My family was and is working class, we had no inside toilet in our home or even on the street, we had no access to employment, we had no way of getting into the uncivilised service. BASICALLY a job was all my father and family wanted.
YET you come across ..from behind I add...... with talk of fluffy clouds, our skies in Northern Ireland were far from fluffy..when day after day in pursuit of what we now know was a failed attempt to over throw a Soverign government a defeated terrorist organisation set off bomb after bomb to try and achieve a RESULT...
RESULT ...YES the result is that the Nationalist and Republican movement is now in the Government under oath to the Country they failed to defeat. POLITICS ....YES all POLITICS...
Tomorrow is Wednesday 17th April 2007... but keep looking in the history books and you will still find other entrys for ..the PRE ..St Andrews Agreement.
ATTACK...ATTACK.. is this in keeping with the current policy of the party?
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Post by bearhunter on Apr 17, 2007 22:55:07 GMT
What party? I'm not a Sinn Feiner, mate. If anything I'm a Me Feiner, but that is neither here nor there. My comments referred to WASP's imputation that all bad things in NI had their genesis in one side of the community. That everything was sweet and rosy until the big bad IRA turned up and made everything horrid.
I don't care what your personal circumstances were, any more than you could give a fiddler's fart about whether my family had a pot to piss in. It's not a competition to see who was worse off, FFS.
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Post by Bilk on Apr 18, 2007 1:27:48 GMT
The reasons given for republican violence was to free the poor downtrodden nationalists, who had nothing while the unionists lived in palaces. No one is saying that it was all the fault of republicans, but I do see where this argument is coming from. I have been involved in many similar arguments, and have always been told that no matter how bad things were for me, they were worse for Catholics/nationalists. The more people who come on here with the truth about this matter the better I say. This was a myth preached by republicans as an excuse for murder. When the truth really was, that the unionist party treated all of the working classes with contempt. Giving the lie to the main argument for republican violence.
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