student union could kick out sf youth wing

[Wasp]

Belfast Telegraph
Students' union could kick out SF youth wing

Friday, March 14, 2008

Sinn Fein's youth wing faces expulsion from the University of Ulster's Students' Union for breaking university guidelines, the Belfast Telegraph can reveal today.

Ogra Shinn Fein is being investigated for distributing a leaflet which included images of masked gunmen.

The picture of the individuals, standing over a coffin draped in the Irish tricolour pointing weapons in the air, appeared on a flyer advertising the innaugural James Sheridan lecture in which Sinn Fein councillors Ian Milne and Peter Bateson spoke.

Sheridan was a member of the south Derry brigade of the IRA.

He was 20 when he died during an accidental explosion in Magherafelt on the night of 18 December 1971. The leaflet, which included Sinn Fein's website, encouraged students to hear the "remarkable story" of the " courageous" Sheridan.

The university adopts a strict political protocol whereby posters informing people of the subject, time and venue of a meeting are allowed to be displayed. A university spokesperson said: "They are not permitted to distribute leaflets or display posters which other members of the university would regard as offensive,"

"Because of this group's behaviour on this occasion, we understand that consideration is being given to the withdrawal of their accreditation as a recognised club or society within the Students' Union."



The Students' Union President said it was likely that Ogra Shinn Fein would lose rights, such as access to buildings.

Danny O'Connor said: "A letter will be sent to them. We don't like what they did. They will be pulled in within the union. We can't let that slide past."

A distressed student, whose policeman father was killed by the south Derry brigade, contacted the Belfast Telegraph to express his disgust.

The student said: "It breaks my heart that the upper echelons of society give succour to such justification of murder by volunteers [described as] "brave patriot dead" and "Irish soldier" under the guise of educational politics."

A spokesperson for the Ulster Unionist Party said: "This event was disgusting, wrong and highly inappropriate. There is no place for such an event in a modern tolerant university."

DUP MP Jeffrey Donaldson appealed for the university to apologise.

A Sinn Fein spokesperson said: "In no way was there an intention to cause any distress."

Sinn Fein councillor Ian Milne said: "I presume it was nothing more than to alert the student population of the lecture."

[Jim]

The UU doesnt let political parties get involved in the student union (one of the only universities in the UK that has that rule) but they allow the british army to recruit so they can send more people my age off to iraq to die for their pockets.

the university of ulster is a joke.

[Wasp]

Jim there is a big difference between terrorists and the BA. That aside I am sure people would feel the same if it was a picture of uvf/uff gunmen etc. None of that should be allowed at all in universities.

[Blue Angel]

not really no - freedom of speech is the most important thing in an university- while i would probably not go to a lecuture about a uvf member (depends on what the circumstances were though-there are occassions when i might that i could imagine) i would not be happy to attend an university where discussion of them was banned. As Jim says here political parties openly campaign for your support - I went to an enrolment day at uni with a friend a few years back and you had the conservatives, liberals, labour, socialist party, national front even all openly campaigning.

[Wasp]

I think the main problem is with the picture.

[Blue Angel]

at the enrolment day i mentioned the troops out movement was also campaigning -they had pictures plastered all over the walls of both british soldiers and irish volunteers in their section - surprisingly none of us died with shock from viewing them. I feel sorry for the girl cited above who was distressed by the photo but members of my own family were burnt out and imprisoned in the 1920s and later by the British and I wouldn't want to say 'no photos of British soldiers in Unis in NI' as a result. Pretending things didn't happen is silly or that differing people have differing perspectives.

[Wasp]

But unfortunately these pictures are from the modern era with the hurt etc still very fresh. Images of ira men from years ago wouldn't bother me but those from my lifetime certainly would.

[Blue Angel]

I'd agree OSF could have used their noodles a bit more and left the picture out but I think it unfortunately does sometimes take age and a bit of experience to see that sort of thing and OSF by it's nature is an organisation pre-dominantly made up of youngsters. Some of say Setanta's age might think twice about running the picture - as would I. I would have probably just done it with text and used some other image - such as his headstone or place of birth etc.

Giving unneccesary offence is pointless - that said I think it's a dangerous practise to start saying people cannot talk on certain issues or topics generally. There are many organisations and people whose viewpoints I find disagreeable but as I said an university has to exsist in a climate of freedom of speech to be a reasonably effective tool of education.

[Blue Angel]

Actually I have an example from the University of Ulster I can use - the Chair of History from there wrote an article for the BBC's History magazine about the Easter Rising which I bought for a train journey a few weeks ago. The gist of the article was that Pearse (whom he seemed to focus on which I thought naive as others were just as much or more instrumental in making the whole thing happen) was a naive fanatic whose mindset had much in common with modern Islamic fundamentalists and that Ireland had never had it so good as under Britain. Obviously I thought he was talking crap and been somewhat offensive at that as well - but he has a right to say whether I dislike it or not. If he comes and hits me in the head for been irish then he has overstepped the mark just as OSF would overstep the mark if they put a banner healdine on a bit of paper saying 'fuck the brits' or something equally stupid.

They are not been spectacularly PR friendly but this is a storm in a teacup sort of situation ultimately.

[Jim]

wasp said:

Jim there is a big difference between terrorists and the BA. That aside I am sure people would feel the same if it was a picture of uvf/uff gunmen etc. None of that should be allowed at all in universities.

Britain is a modern liberal democracy and as such its educational institutions should reflect that, all political parties should have the right to recruit and give talks at institutions when invited to, especially by students. They do it at my university, I was asked to join both the Lib Dems and Labour and would have actually joined Labour but in the end couldn't be arsed.

For example, the BNP giving a speech at Oxford students union.

Blue angel said he would not go to a lecture abou a UVF member but to be quite honest I'd be first in line to go to it.

[Wasp]

I beleive in freedom of speech, freedom to worship or not and freedom of choice. But none of us have ultimate freedom because somewhere along the line we will cross it. The situation with universitys in England is quite different to here with the political situation. To compare both is unfair.

N.I students can be a mix of extremists and hardliners so perhaps these rules are simply in place to stop something which we would class as small turning into something big that none of us want. Many riots here started out because of something small or simple and turned into hours or days of riots.

So fair play to the Uni for having such rules, they pehaps are looking at the bigger picture and what to outcomes to avoid.

[Blue Angel]

jim actually i said i could imagine myself going to a lecture about a uvf dependent on the topic of the lecture - not all topics to do with either republicanism or unionism would interest me enough to attend a lecture about either. But the example of the BNP giving a speech at Oxford is exactly what I meant. I happen to think the BNP are idiots but its better to allow them to talk than not.

The situation in NI is so different from the rest of the Uk that special limits on freedom of speech must be put in place -that only tells us a lot about the failure of the state over the years to me.

And students are often extremists -it's to do with been young partly and thinking yours will be the generation that rights all the wrongs of the world - but that's a preferable outlook to becoming apathetic as we grow older which many of us fall into.

[Wasp]

While I agree with you BA, I would say it is more a failure of the people, the political parties and all those that created, maintained and inflamed sectarian hatred and mistrust. To blame the state alone is unfair and let's not forget the republic played its part as well.

[Jim]

The Republic is hardly known for its universities outside of Trinity. Britain has hundreds of them and I can't think of any that bans political parties. Especially when the British army actively recruit from them.

I think you are misunderstanding Wasp, for generations universities have been involved in politics, if you look at reformations in British history especially from the 19th century, university students have been at the front of campaigns or changes, and a lot of time were involved in uprising, not just in Britain but everywhere in the world. Locally, for us, a lot of change in Irish politics came from universities, and even when it came to the Troubles a lot people who wanted change or took up a gun were university educated because it taught them how to think independently and were not just easily led by certain reverents with the initials "IP". Most of NICRA was university led and even some members of the IRA where university educated. Politics and universities go hand in hand and to "depoliticise" higher education is going against nearly 200 years of what being able to go to university was about.

Now its easier to get into a university (or else I'd not be there) but there is still a lot of student activisim. I'm not involved in it, I genuinely can't be arsed I think most of them nowdays just want to sit on the sidelines and shout and whinge and call people "Thatcherites", but I still think they have every right to do what they do even if it means putting pictures of IRA dead on their leaflets. Anyone offended by it is going out of their way to be invited, student activism is a close knit thing.

Funnily enough speaking of roots who only stand on the sidelines I was watching Let's Talk on the BBC the other night because Alastair Campbell was a guest and a socialist student started piping up and calling New Labour, the DUP, and SF "Thatcherites" and saying how he wont vote for anyone. The question was put to SF and Connor Murphy basically told him something like "you're sitting there in an audience chair giving soundbytes, if you feel that strongly then go out and make your voices heard".

How can that be done with student unions banning youth wings? It goes against the purpose of university. The UU student union is more of an extension of the university than being a student union which are usually fairly independent.

[earl]

I think OSF are feckin' ejeets for using that photo, and are either extremely stupid and insensitive, or did it deliberately to get a reaction. I've no hassle with them speaking or operating in Uni, just how they have gone about it in this instance. Who thinks leaflets of fellas in balaclavas with guns in a secular environment is a good idea?