Irish TV axes advert over mention of crib

[earl]

Ireland's state broadcaster, RTÉ, has enraged the Catholic church by axing a Christmas advertisement because of a mention of the word "crib", which was deemed to have religious undertones.

The advert was plugging a charity Christmas card for Veritas, the church's publishing arm. Under Irish broadcasting rules broadcasters must not permit "advertising directed towards a religious end". An RTÉ spokesman said that an "issue might arise in relation to promoting the sale of cribs" and that the station could have broken the rules if it broadcast ads "directed towards religious ends".

The row highlights new social pressures on Ireland, with migrants thought to make up almost 20% of the population.

Yesterday the Irish Catholic Bishops' Conference expressed concern at the axing of the ad, saying it highlighted a trend to remove Christ from Christmas.

A chain of Dublin creches announced last week that it would not be staging nativity plays after complaints from non-Christian parents.
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Feckin' eijeets have it the wrong way around. They should allow this and ban the angelous.

[Wasp]

I am not so sure about the tv adverts but I think it is terrible that nativity plays have been cancelled because of non-Christian parents. If they don't like the plays then they don't have to go, infact maybe they should goto a country where they are not offended by another countries traditions.

Ireland is a mianly Catholic country which has for years celebrated Christmas. While I do not agree with Catholic teaching I am right behind them when it comes to their traditions and celebrations being eroded because of non-believers.

I hope the Bishops hold the biggest nativity play ever and travel around as many creches as possible to show it.

[Blue Angel]

i'm atheist meself but i detest anyone telling others what to believe - my own personal feeling on this is everyone can believe what they want up to the point where they start telling me i am damned for not believing the same things as them. I regard all religion as essentially an organise con job on a collosal scale but I know for some people it is of importance to them and if people are so petty as to moan about nativity play then it's sad. Most people of whatever religion are not so petty, most people of whatever religion I know would be fine about watching a nativity play.

[Jim]

Who gives a shite about the nativity? Even in England no one gave a shite when there was a kickup about it being cancelled in some schools.

I hated doing nativity plays in primary school, despised it, only done it cuz I had too and it got me out of a few classes.

[earl]

I was one of the wise men, ironically. Can't remember which though. I'm anti-religion, but I'm also getting more and more anti-PC. It's a good idea in principle, but it's been taken too far. Now some things are stopped as they might cause someone somewhere offence. I say that we should look at where some of these people are coming from, and tell them that when their country stops doing sh!t that we may find offensive, we'll stop whatever they find offensive. Now I'm not condoning racism, sectarianism or bigotry of any kind. Common sense rules what's offensive or not, and common sense and practicality needs to be practised by all parties.

[Wasp]

Earl I see the pc brigade have got to you as well. WHY did you feel the need to say 'I'm not condoning racism, sectarianism or bigotry of any kind'. We know you aren't but society now adays makes people feel that they are being any of those things by speaking out against them.

You have proved this by putting that into your post which shows that we are all now in a situation where others have it if we speak out against those who need to be etc we are classed as racist.

I am not a racist by any means, I think some of my family may have something to say about that but as far as I am concerned those who protest and moan about another countries traditions, culture or way of life etc should fuck off somewhere that they won't be offended at every turn and corner.

[Blue Angel]

i think it depends on how any protest is done - if it is done about a specific issue without implying that the people of the country are all evil or inferior that's fine but if it is done in such a way as to imply that ALL the people and ALL the traditions of that country are evil or morally wrong that does become offensive. I have no problem with say people asked awkward questions about what the hell the UK is doing in the middle east but I do have a problem when people start saying that all the British infidels should die - the same as I have no problem with people asking questions about Britains role in Ireland but when it becomes a case of making wild generalisations about the 'Brits' it becomes distasteful.

[Wasp]

Well if some tosser protested or complained about a nativity play being held etc, then he should find a creche that is inoofensive to him. Maybe the toys that are used will offend him because they are owned by an American firm or maybe a flag on one of the toys will cause deep offence. People like this take the biscuit.

[Blue Angel]

my own feeling on nativity plays is this - best to hold them in non-state schools which have a christian ethos -really i don't think state schools should hold them or encourage prayers or practise of any particular religion above an other as it's not part of their function and as most modern schools have people from a variety of religions its nearly impossible to avoid arguments.

[Wasp]

Bollocks. Why should any school change their tradition because non-Christians attend? Why should non-Christian schools change their traditions because Christians attend? Simply they shouldn't.

[Blue Angel]

i feel schools shouldn't be promoting ANY religion in the first place. It's not their job - if you go to a school with a decided religous ethos that is non-state based that's perhaps different. Also, most non-christian schools in britain would be either fee-paying/devoted to a particular local community (such as the schools that teach jewish kids in london's east end) or non-state schools. Best to avoid issues of any bias by just not putting religion on the curriculum in the first place to be honest except as a comapritive subject. If say 50 per cent of the pupils of a school are non-christian as is the case in many places what's the point anyway except wasted resources. The comparision doesn't work both ways as very few christians attend non-christian schools in the first place for the reasons cited above.

[Blue Angel]

To give an example, I went to a Catholic school as a teenager- logically you can safely assume that the school was run on a Christian ethos and morning prayers and weekly mass occurred. That's fine as everyone in the school was at least nominally Catholic. There was a Church of England girl's school nearby run on a similar ethos. And a Jewish and Muslim school run on similar lines. But how do you logicall introdue religion into the curiculum in the states school in area where 30 per cent or so of your pupils would be Hindu and Muslim, some would be Baptist, some Catholic, some High Anglican, some Jehovah's witnesses etc. That would more or less describe the mixture of pupils you would be likely to get in many inner city parts of London. How do you approach religion on the curriculum then?

[Wasp]

For schools who have traditionally had a nativity play they should continue to do so even if only 10% of pupils believe in Jesus or come from a background that believes in Jesus. Would muslim schools give up their traditions which they have being doing for years because non-muslim parents complained? No they wouldn't, nor should any school do likewise.

[Blue Angel]

but what's the point in holding it in the example you cite wasp? Certainly i think moaning and groaning about a nativity play is a waste of time as it harms no one ultimately and a muslim school would not be likely to have non-muslim parents now would it. State schools are not 'Christian' or 'Jewish' or 'Muslim' schools so the most they should be doing is teaching kids about the variety of religions in the world and their origins and letting them make up their own minds. Christ even though I went to a Catholic school as I pointed out above the priests/nuns who taught RE made sure to try and point out that they didn't think the Catholic faith was the only one worth following and that respect for all religous viewpoints was a worthwhile goal.

[Wasp]

but what's the point in holding it in the example you cite wasp?

If it was traditionally done then these pupils and there parents are hardly to blame because the religious make up of the school has changed? Haven't these pupils got a right to celebrate the birth of Jesus which is a deep seeded tradition? And here is me defending the rights of R. Catholics.

Certainly i think moaning and groaning about a nativity play is a waste of time as it harms no one ultimately and a muslim school would not be likely to have non-muslim parents now would it.

With that logic why would muslim parents send their kids to a school with a Christian ethos? What about say a Christian family living in a muslim country where their kids can only attend a muslim school? Would they stop their traditions to please kids who believe in Jesus? No they wouldn't, nor should they.

State schools are not 'Christian' or 'Jewish' or 'Muslim' schools so the most they should be doing is teaching kids about the variety of religions in the world and their origins and letting them make up their own minds.

The UK/Ireland are Christian countries and state schools have always traditionally taught Christian beliefs and traditionally celebrated the birth of Jesus in one way or another. Because more people from other religions have come to these shores and have had children here etc then I agree teaching about various religions is the thing to do. But that does not mean we stop our traditions to suit others. Simple as that.

Christ even though I went to a Catholic school as I pointed out above the priests/nuns who taught RE made sure to try and point out that they didn't think the Catholic faith was the only one worth following and that respect for all religous viewpoints was a worthwhile goal.

Respect is the key word here. These non-Christians should repsect the long held traditions within our schools no matter what the religious make up the school has.