Loyalist March to "intimidate Chinese"

[Jim]

Hoods attacking orange halls and ulster parades in Dublin do not equal republicans and they do not represent me. Thats like saying drug dealers in loyalist areas represent you because your loyalist and so are they. Load of balls mate.

I couldnt give a fuck if one of them is catholic he's still a scumbag if hes linked with the BNP. They dont have valid points, I've went through their entire website and its all a load of bollocks, I've saw demonstrations held by them in England and its all a load of bollocks, I could show you plenty of quotes links and videos of BNP electioneers, people standing for election and even the leadership condoning attacks on "black persons and pakis" and how they want to start turning Jews into lamp shades again.

Valid points, aye, okay. The only valid point they have is that the system of politics in Britain is up the left, but as usual the BNP blame it on foreigners, not the british elite.

Its funny, your usually the first person to call republicans fascists and here you are sticking up for an out and out neo-nazi fascist racist "party". I'll have to remember that next time I go on Red watch and see leftist/republican activists having their mugs put up by facists so they can be recognised by skinhead gangs.

[Blue Angel]

all i'll say about the BNP is that I remember that years ago they used to make their hatred of all things Jewish more obvious. In recent years they've muted it and started in on Muslims as they are a more easy target to use as a bogey man given the current world climate. But I can remember them turning up in Stamford hill as a kid when I lived there making truly obscene speeches - I remember when I was really little our landlady who was an auschwitz survivor coming home crying as they had been handing out leaflets claiming the Jews were morallly inferior. They have a history of nonsense like that here - the organisations the modern NF/BNP are descended from were infamous here for trying to bully and attack the Jewish community in the 1950s - until that is the local Jewish young men went and beat the living shit out of them when they got tired of their families and community been upset -they had assumed that as they are mostly Hassidic Jews in this part of London they would be safe from retailation as part of Hassidic Jewish tradition is an avoidance of violence at all times, but there's only so far you can push anyone before they push back at you. As a result the BNP and their goons have never really tried tactics like this again in the East End.

[Blue Angel]

a couple of poinbs further - let's not forget this is a party where one of it's founders said 'Mein Kampf is my bible' and if you want an insight into the BNP well try this :- video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=1269630805284168668

You have repeatedy criticised republicans links to the Third Reich as supportive of Nazism WASP and i have acknowledged it was a mistake to look to that regime for support (with the caveat that the IRA like any guerilla army would take weapons if the devil himself was handing them out without necceasarily believing in the regime offering them very much) but you are now saying a party which has links to holocaust denial among other things has some 'valid points!' Try the Institute for Historical Review in your search engine - an odious little organisation with links both direct and indirect to the BNP.

The BNP publically disavows the thuggish element which make up it's spear carriers as they are trying to present a somewhat more urbane image these days but the old nasty slavering dog isn't too far underneath the surface of the new model cosy British labrador they are trying to present themselves as.

[Blue Angel]

Or of course I could show you how the BNP's ancestry goes back to the British Union of Fascists headed by one Oswald Mosley - another idiot who got his arse kicked at Cable street here, I'm proud of the fact that a fairly sizeable percentage of those who kicked the arse of him and his followers in 1936 were Irish as well.

But there you have it, the BNP has roots in an organisation who was happy and willling to support Hitler and believed in his racial doctrines... I think you should think on that WASP next time you start calling repulicanism fascist by nature if you are going to claim these groups have any valid points to raise.

[Wasp]

Hang on a minute I did not say I support the bnp, nor am I defending them, I simply stated that there are those who are not thugs but support the bnp in general. So incase I get accused of being a bnp member or something like that, I DO NOT SUPPORT THE BNP, I have no sympathy for anyone who condones an attack on someone because of their skin colour or religion. To say all bnp members or supporters support these attacks is wrong.

Jim I thinkl you are being a tad hypocritical here. First of all these hoodies/thugs that attack OO halls claim to be republicans, many of those who attacked the LU rally claim to be republicans. Let's not forget a junior member of sinn fein fell off an orange hall rooftop, so where is your stance at every street corner? Unless of course a member of sinn fein is not a republican?

BTW you all know my sympathies are with Isreal and the Jewish people, so why would I support a bunch of arseholes who hated them?

[Jim]

Its not wrong, they are part of the party condoning these attacks.

I'm not being hypocritical at all, they are not republicans they are dick heads, but because they "claim" to be republicans you'll not hear otherwise, or youll not believe otherwise. The people who attacked the LU rally where hoods from the estates around that part of Dublin and if you've ever been down that way you'll see its an absolute shite hole, its worse than Sandy Row or Divis. You fail to see my point in the first place.

Apparently the BNP ae supporting israel these days, too, because the "muzzys" are becoming a bigger "problem" for them.

[Wasp]

Was the member of sinn fein that fell off the roof of an OO hall not a republican??

[Jim]

Ógra Sinn Fein, not Sinn Fein. Two different organisations.

[earl]

wasp said:

THE BNP are not the band, nor do they represent loyalists. Is it anyones fault if undesireables show support for them?

Well, when respectable citizens are seen standing shoulder to shoulder with the likes of combat 18, and ex-Loyalists are working with german neo-nazis, it's hard to blame anyone else!

Did the thugs in Dublin represent all those who were opposed to the march for example? Of course not, IMO the bnp is only another chance to snipe at loyalists.

You would have been hard pressed to find anyone other than a Dublin scummer at that protest. Any decent citizen stayed well clear. There was no intermingling.

You also missed the other points of the amount of fund raising the band does for charity. I believe only the week before they raised alot of money for charity. But as usual it is the nick picking to demonize loyalism further.

I made it clear that it was this band I was targeting, not all bands or this tradition.

Did the band know a funeral was on and what was the sectarian song that they played while passing the church?

They were told beforehand, and when they saw the hearse outside the church, they started to play 'No Pope in Rome'.

[Wasp]

Well Earl for starters they should have played no music at all, not even a hymm when they 'knew' there was a funeral. BTW how do you know they were told beforehand?

What are these respectable citizens standing shoulder to shoulder with combat 18? Now at every football match you will always get supporters that are arseholes and not true supporters at all and as you are well aware not all the people attending republican rallies are respectable citizens, some are downright thugs so going by your logic then it's hard to blame anyone else but republicans.

So Celtic fc should be blamed for those who chant ira songs at various celtic functions in or away from the ground. The vast majority of loyalists that I know have no time for the likes of combat 18, but as in everyside there are those undesirables who do support such disgusting groups.

When republicans look at their links with the three main enemies of the world, communism, facism and islamic terrorists then they will have the right to point the finger at arseholes who claim to be loyalists and put the loyalist population in the same mix as those scumbags.

[Jim]

We're not saying everyone who goes to republican rallies are decent citizens, but I can guarantee you not one of them will be a british neo-nazi.

Weither you have no time for combat18 isnt the point. Loads of people in England have no time for the BNP, but they are still there, its not about support, these arseholes are able to exist in any political environment without support.

You forgot the fourth main enemy, imperialism. Also, how exactly can republicans have links with both communists and fascists? you dont have an understanding of wht communism or fascism is if you think that.

[bearhunter]

wasp said:

Well Earl for starters they should have played no music at all, not even a hymm when they 'knew' there was a funeral. BTW how do you know they were told beforehand?

What are these respectable citizens standing shoulder to shoulder with combat 18? Now at every football match you will always get supporters that are arseholes and not true supporters at all and as you are well aware not all the people attending republican rallies are respectable citizens, some are downright thugs so going by your logic then it's hard to blame anyone else but republicans.

So Celtic fc should be blamed for those who chant ira songs at various celtic functions in or away from the ground. The vast majority of loyalists that I know have no time for the likes of combat 18, but as in everyside there are those undesirables who do support such disgusting groups.

When republicans look at their links with the three main enemies of the world, communism, facism and islamic terrorists then they will have the right to point the finger at arseholes who claim to be loyalists and put the loyalist population in the same mix as those scumbags.

A few points WASPy.
Firstly, I think the presence of a hearse outside the church might have given them some idea that there was a funeral going on, unless they are completely fucking stupid.
Secondly, Celtic already get blamed for gobshites singing pro-IRA songs, as though shadowy terrorist organisations have anything to do with football. They get crucified any time bigotry or violence in Scottish football is mentioned. Even on occasions when the bigotry and violence is coming from Rangers (..."aw but Sellick are just as bad, y'knaw. Och they're fierce basthurds altogether...")
And thirdly, as someone who has never been a card-carrying republican or a supporter of the politics of the gun, I will quite happily point fingers wherever I want to. For all the good it will do. I have never advocated anyone getting shot, so it is with a certain level of grim satisfaction that I say to you mate that when your own doorstep is cleaned etc....

[earl]

During the first years of Drumcree, there is tv footage of men with OO apparel on them hanging out with known members of combat 18.

[Shades40]

Stand up against the price hikes of beef satay!?

[Wasp]

A few points WASPy.
Firstly, I think the presence of a hearse outside the church might have given them some idea that there was a funeral going on, unless they are completely fucking stupid.

Really depends on the Church, how it is situated etc, not everything is visible in Church grounds.

Secondly, Celtic already get blamed for gobshites singing pro-IRA songs, as though shadowy terrorist organisations have anything to do with football. They get crucified any time bigotry or violence in Scottish football is mentioned. Even on occasions when the bigotry and violence is coming from Rangers (..."aw but Sellick are just as bad, y'knaw. Och they're fierce basthurds altogether...")

You already know I have very little time for Scottish football, but Rangers fans feel the sameway.

And thirdly, as someone who has never been a card-carrying republican or a supporter of the politics of the gun, I will quite happily point fingers wherever I want to. For all the good it will do. I have never advocated anyone getting shot, so it is with a certain level of grim satisfaction that I say to you mate that when your own doorstep is cleaned etc....

I have no problem with that or with your politics, none at all. Infact I agree with you.