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Post by Wasp on Jul 13, 2010 20:24:26 GMT
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Post by collina on Jul 14, 2010 8:44:14 GMT
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Post by Wasp on Jul 14, 2010 17:35:21 GMT
Thanks Collina, as per usual there were a number of Catholics along with us and one of their kids was carrying the strings of the banner which she had done before. There was a real good family atmosphere up at the field and the stalls made a flamin fortune selling sweets and toys. |
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Post by collina on Jul 15, 2010 19:44:51 GMT
Thanks Collina, as per usual there were a number of Catholics along with us and one of their kids was carrying the strings of the banner which she had done before. There was a real good family atmosphere up at the field and the stalls made a flamin fortune selling sweets and toys. Do ya see there WASP, you just described a day at Croke Park. We all think that the twelvth is a shrine to triumphalism and bigotry and yee all think GAA games are the same. Come down some day to a Dublinv Meath match, it makes the Old-Frim look tame. The only sectarianism I've ever seen at Croker is chants against those oul Kerry whores.  |
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Post by Wasp on Jul 15, 2010 21:05:21 GMT
Thanks Collina, as per usual there were a number of Catholics along with us and one of their kids was carrying the strings of the banner which she had done before. There was a real good family atmosphere up at the field and the stalls made a flamin fortune selling sweets and toys. Do ya see there WASP, you just described a day at Croke Park. We all think that the twelvth is a shrine to triumphalism and bigotry and yee all think GAA games are the same. Come down some day to a Dublinv Meath match, it makes the Old-Frim look tame. The only sectarianism I've ever seen at Croker is chants against those oul Kerry whores. That is fair enough Collina and that is the way it should be. |
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Post by leeside on Jul 16, 2010 0:09:19 GMT
Orange Order is on march to obscurity
(by Liam Clarke, Sunday Times)
Mao Zedong is unlikely to be quoted at tomorrow's July 12 Orange demonstrations across Northern Ireland, but the advice he gave to an impatient Red Army is relevant to Ulster's parading brethren. "It is not the extent of our march which will prove decisive, but its direction," the Chinese leader declared.
The Orange Order, on the other hand, is quite content to march around in circles, or into cul-de-sacs and not worry too much about where it ends up. It prides itself on unchanging principles, but in fact it has all the fixity of purpose of a goldfish. The order knows what it should be doing, and to some extent is doing it, but not with enough consistency.
Yesterday, for instance, the Rev Stanley Gamble, one of its grand chaplains, made the right sort of placatory statements at the annual parade in Rossnowlagh, Co Donegal. He presented the order as a defender of civil and religious liberties, principles that he said were at the core of the Irish state. He praised the president Mary McAleese, saying she had made Ireland a "warm house for Protestants". He quoted, with approval, her statement that you could be "Irish and British, Irish and Orange", wished her a happy retirement and thanked God for the transformation in the Irish nation she had overseen.
This is clearly the sort of pluralist tone that the order needs to strike and sometimes does. Some years ago it cut its links with the Ulster Unionist party (UUP) to ensure it would no longer be seen as a party-political organisation.
For the past five years, Belfast's Orange demonstrations have been rebranded as Orangefest and the order now receives funds from Tourism Ireland to promote Orangefest and five "Flagship Twelfths" parades across the province as visitor attractions and family fun days out.
There is more to be done. In Belfast, for instance, shops are open for only a few hours on July 12, though this is an improvement: until last year they used to close. This marks progress in the effort to make the annual demonstrations tourist-friendly. It is a change from the days when the violent protests that surrounded the Drumcree march in Portadown paralysed the transport system each July and frightened visitors away.
Selling itself as a cultural organisation and attempting to turn the Twelfth into a carnival are not easy tasks, and represent a huge mind-shift for an organisation that used to more or less run the place, and which has its origins in the religious faction fights of the 18th century. At the Battle of the Diamond in 1795, after which the order was founded, between 30 and 40 Catholic defenders were killed by the Protestant Peep o' Day Boys. With that history, it is perhaps no surprise that the Orange Order often sends out mixed messages, hankering after the political power it once wielded, even as it attempts to negotiate a new position for itself. It cannot seem to maintain a consistent direction.
The Orange hall at Tamnamore, near Dungannon, was the scene of its latest debacle. The Grand Lodge, the order's governing body, met in the hall on Tuesday night and voted against draft legislation on parading. This may mark the end of the order's long, senseless and divisive battle against the Parades Commission, just at the moment when it appeared to be on the brink of a Pyrrhic victory.
The order's opposition to the commission, a quasi-judicial body set up in 1998 to take the task of adjudicating on contentious parades out of the hands of the police, is incoherent. A survey of Orange members in 2002 showed that most accepted it. The PSNI and the Police Federation, which represents rank and file officers, also support the commission.
Support and acceptance is also growing among the general population. An Omnibus survey, conducted by the NI Statistics and Research Agency, found that 56% believe that the commission has improved the situation, up from 20% in 2001. Among Protestants, the approval rate has risen from 8% in 2001 to 39% this year. Active opposition is fairly low.
Despite the order's official ban on contact with the commission, many of its districts, including Portadown where the Drumcree service takes place, meet it. Orangemen have even been members of the commission and, through negotiation, the number of contentious parades has been whittled down to a handful. Yet instead of confining itself to challenging the decisions it does not agree with, the order has backed itself into a corner and is demanding the commission's abolition.
Earlier this year, the Democratic Unionist party (DUP) turned to the order for support when it needed political cover for the devolution of policing and justice to Stormont. It promised to abolish the Parades Commission if the order would publicly support the devolution of policing and justice. The snag was that abolishing the commission needed the support of Sinn Féin who, in turn, would not agree to a fundamental change on parading without the approval of nationalist residents' groups.
The draft legislation that emerged was a mess. Not only did it require 37 days' notice for any public assembly, it replaced the Parades Commission with three new bodies. One would make appointments to the others, the second would convene discussions over contested parades, and the third would adjudicate if all else failed.
As Tom Elliott, a member of the Grand Lodge and a UUP MLA, said: "The difference between the new adjudication body and the old Parades Commission is that you have an unwieldy process to go through before you get to the adjudication body whereas at least the Parades Commission was quick."
The problem for the Orange Order is that, having abandoned the UUP and snubbed the DUP's best efforts, it could find itself friendless.
A senior Orangeman, who supported the changes on parading, said: "We now have no political party who we can ask to do something. The UUP can't deliver. The DUP won't touch us with a barge pole because we have let them down. It takes us into the wilderness."
To make matters worse, the attention it got from the DUP appears to have gone to the order's head. Tomorrow, nearly all Twelfth platforms will hear calls for unionist unity. Robert Saulters, the Orange grand master who presided over the Tamnamore debacle, is calling for "one big unionist party" and offering to broker a merger between the UUP and the DUP.
There are about 36,000 people in the Orange Order, and the membership is declining. In its heyday it had more than 93,000 members and was a serious political power broker. Those days are gone but it is still a significant organisation which, if properly led, could negotiate an important role for itself. The problem is that as it marches into the 21st century, the order does not know where it is going and has no collective vision of what it is capable of achieving."
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Post by Wasp on Jul 16, 2010 19:22:30 GMT
Leeside if your posts such as the above are aimed at me then Ireally dont know why, I am not an Orangeman, at times I disagree with some decisions took by the Orange Order etc.
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Post by Jim on Jul 17, 2010 1:36:52 GMT
Why do you celebrate an orange tradition if you arent an orangeman?
Not being a dick. Makes no sense to me.
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Post by Wasp on Jul 18, 2010 10:21:52 GMT
Why do you celebrate an orange tradition if you arent an orangeman? Not being a dick. Makes no sense to me. Do people celebrate in the gaa tradition that arent gaa players? Hundreds of thousands that line the streets to watch the 12th are not members of lodges, they were brought up with this being a big part in their life, they identify with Protestant culture, they were brought together as a result of centureis of attacks on them by catholics, they stood together in the face of terrorism etc etc and this is the day they all come together to enjoy their culture and look back at the days when they were young kids standing with their parents and grand parents watching parades. I know many catholic families who have the tradition of getting all the kids new outfits for the twelth so the twelth has played a big part in both Protestant and Catholics here. Bilk was with me and I pointed out plenty of catholics standing beside Protestants watching the parade, Catholic owned bars packed with Protestants etc etc |
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Post by leeside on Aug 3, 2010 14:57:05 GMT
Do they also take part in the annual 'inclusive and tolerant' hatefest that is the 11th night bonfire also?
Catholic owned bars packed with protestants? The blue pound is the same value as the green pound i'm sure.
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Post by Wasp on Aug 3, 2010 17:21:36 GMT
Do they also take part in the annual 'inclusive and tolerant' hatefest that is the 11th night bonfire also? Catholic owned bars packed with protestants? The blue pound is the same value as the green pound i'm sure. I never go to the bonfires now, but when I did there were many catholics there and I know many who still go. Your point is??? |
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Post by leeside on Aug 3, 2010 23:27:35 GMT
Thought my post was clear enough. what don't you get?
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Post by Wasp on Aug 4, 2010 22:10:28 GMT
Thought my post was clear enough. what don't you get? In a way I feel sorry for you, you are consumed with bitterness and intolerance which paints a bad picture of Southern attitudes if we were to use you as an example. Just look at Collina's positive response and my resonse to Collina, you just cant stomach the very thought of anything being positive about my community or culture. |
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Post by leeside on Aug 5, 2010 13:44:17 GMT
Boo fucking hoo....You're full of shit, Wasp. I see how you are over on the ignorant racist hatefest that is Calton and how you're over here. Very very different. I certainly dont buy into your bullshit 'mr moderate' facade you bring over here. I know well how loyalists feel about all things Irish, Republican and Catholic... with the very odd exception of course, so frankly i dont give a fuck how you perceive all southern attitudes based on my posts.
Forgive me for not showing respect to the culture of burning my national flag and effigies or to the thousands of drunken loyalists playing shit sectarian music while pissing all along the 'queens highway'. Its just not my thing......
Respect is a two way thing, Wasp. Something loyalists have not grasped yet.
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Post by Wasp on Aug 5, 2010 14:47:12 GMT
Great comeback lol. Are you still on about PULSE, tell me what is your username because I use the same name as here because I have nothing to hide, nothing at all. Infact I only post now and again as I feel fit, but come on why do you hide behind your mask? Errr who said I was mr Moderate?? I would class myself as more staunch than moderate. Oh just a few exceptions, well you are backing up the view of how republican bigots like yourself view my community so boo hoo. OOPS your rattle must have fell out of your pram way down their in the south. Hahaha what a twisting of facts, your narrowmindedness and intolerance is here for all to see, thanks for showing your true self on here at least, pity you hide behind a name on other forums though. Pot and kettle comes to mind when you post, how about you leading by example and showing us loyalists that respect is a two way thing? Sadly you couldnt because you are back there with the wee dinosaur dissidents and other republicans who walk round with constant chips on their shoulders. Sad really that even in the south way down where you are/were people have attitudes like yours. You reall are a wee intolerant bunch of bigots who cant stomach your very neighbours, fellow countrymen having a culture that is different to the hate fest you belong to. Even republicans are turning their backs on attitudes like yours, as McGuinness said you are an embarrassment to irish people.  |
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