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Post by leeside on Feb 23, 2010 23:49:37 GMT
As regards the prophecies and scientific 'accuracies' i will look into their claims properly as im not familiar with bible verses and see if they are as accurate as claimed or more of the Nostrodamus type of 'accuracy'.
Just a question Wasp. Do you believe that Adam and Eve are the first human beings on this planet created by 'God'?
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Post by Wasp on Feb 24, 2010 14:09:12 GMT
As regards the prophecies and scientific 'accuracies' i will look into their claims properly as im not familiar with bible verses and see if they are as accurate as claimed or more of the Nostrodamus type of 'accuracy'. Just a question Wasp. Do you believe that Adam and Eve are the first human beings on this planet created by 'God'? Yes I do believe that, I always have although TBH there were times I doubted it but more of me still believed it if you know what I mean. Also check what the bible says about the singing stars, the preciousness of snow etc and then check scientific findings. Do you know why children were circumcised on the 7th day as commanded by God?? |
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Post by leeside on Feb 24, 2010 14:27:17 GMT
No idea. Im not circumcised  Do you believe that Adam and Eve gave birth to Cane and Able? |
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Post by Wasp on Feb 24, 2010 14:31:40 GMT
No idea. Im not circumcised Do you believe that Adam and Eve gave birth to Cane and Able? The 7th day is scientifically proven to be the safest day to operate on a human being concerning the blood, there are those that question it but dont you think for this to be known thousands of years ago is amazing? I know where you are going with this.....incest, just come out and say it rather than trying to lead me to it  |
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Post by leeside on Feb 24, 2010 14:36:50 GMT
Where did u get those figures? Am i mis-reading this or is it claiming that there only 1021 stars and 1025 grains of sand in the earths sea shores??  |
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Post by leeside on Feb 24, 2010 14:37:48 GMT
No idea. Im not circumcised Do you believe that Adam and Eve gave birth to Cane and Able? The 7th day is scientifically proven to be the safest day to operate on a human being concerning the blood, there are those that question it but dont you think for this to be known thousands of years ago is amazing? I know where you are going with this.....incest, just come out and say it rather than trying to lead me to it ;D ;D What do you have to say about it though? |
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Post by Wasp on Feb 24, 2010 17:24:06 GMT
It is an interesting issue. First of all if its God's will for this to happen to allow humans to multiply then who am I to question it. Todays world of millions and millions is very much different from when there was only 2 people, that said I would like to explain my thoughts on it.
Either or both;
1) God allowed incest for a generation for humans to multiply
2) God created more Adam and eve's which is a possibility but beause its not biblical then I can only look at that as a possibility.
There were quite a few rightous people who married aunt/nephew/sister/half sister etc but these unions/marriages were later banned by the law. The law against such relationships doesnt seem to have been inplace until the times of mosaic law. I dont think either that Moses job was to explain every detail of history in his writings.
It is an intersting question leeside but its not one that I can give a definate answer, laws were created during biblical times and laws were also changed.
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Post by leeside on Feb 28, 2010 16:02:50 GMT
It is an interesting issue. First of all if its God's will for this to happen to allow humans to multiply then who am I to question it. Todays world of millions and millions is very much different from when there was only 2 people, that said I would like to explain my thoughts on it. Either or both; 1) God allowed incest for a generation for humans to multiply 2) God created more Adam and eve's which is a possibility but beause its not biblical then I can only look at that as a possibility. There were quite a few rightous people who married aunt/nephew/sister/half sister etc but these unions/marriages were later banned by the law. The law against such relationships doesnt seem to have been inplace until the times of mosaic law. I dont think either that Moses job was to explain every detail of history in his writings. It is an intersting question leeside but its not one that I can give a definate answer, laws were created during biblical times and laws were also changed. Personally, I see it as another example of why the bible is clearly nothing more than an accumulation of contradicting stories that were clearly written for man by man. |
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Post by leeside on Feb 28, 2010 16:37:29 GMT
'Prophecies' The first prophecy about the coming of the messiah has led me to many websites that generally use a form of numerology to determine the exact year and depending on which translation or version of which bible that can differ greatly. Using 'week's for 'years' and vice versa in its calculation is nothing but numerology in my eyes and nothing prophetic. Explained quite well here: creationevolutiondesign.blogspot.com/2008/10/re-i-am-requesting-your-help-involving.htmlRegarding those biblical scientific 'facts'........ There is not a single shred of evidence that hebrew existed as a written language during the Late Bronze Age. The earliest fragments of the OT (including Leviticus) are in Greek (the Septuagint) and date from the 3d century BC The word is "circle" not "sphere." The more primitive societies saw Earth as pancake-shaped with a big sky-dome overhead...which is where v. 23 comes in: I mean a circle can be flat. If you look at the moon its a circle but also looks flat. Um, WHERE, exactly is the "infinite extent of the sidereal universe" mentioned here? It just says that the heavens--the sky--is higher than the EArth. Well, DUH, of course it is! This has NOTHING to do with ANY laws of physics! See, this kind of nonsense only fools the pew-warmers who never opened a science book in their lives and just believe any old thing Pastor says. I don't think you need divine intervention to figure out that rivers flow into the sea, and the sea never overflows. The Hebrews thought water sprang up from the "storehouses of the deep," a vast underground source of seas and rivers. I doubt they were smart enough to figure out about the hydrologic cycle. Again, NO law of physics is mentioned here. It simply talks about everything being impermanent except for God. What is scientific about this? This passage does not describe the "precise movement of the universe." It does describe physical phenomenon that were easily observable to a bronze age people. What does this passage describe? The sun lights the day The moon and stars light the night. The sea has waves. That's all is says. There is nothing precise about this passage about the universe or anything else. Skimming it at first, one can see how someone might mistakenly think this passage describes how the moon creates ocean tides as it does mention the moon and ocean waves. However, it does nothing of the kind. It says that god makes the waves, not the moon. If it had said this, the passage would be somewhat interesting. But it doesn't. Any imbecile can see that, if an animal or person loses enough blood, he will die. In what way is this proof that God implants special scientific knowledge into people's brains? Btw, the brain is mentioned NOWHERE in all the Bible. It is THE most important organ in the body; without it, nothing functions at all, not even with all the blood intact. Why didn't God impart this important piece of knowledge to the Hebrews? Not true. Jet streams travel from west to east. Lower atmospheric winds are determined by temperature, humidity, and local topography. Where is gravity mentioned? Earth is not "suspended" from gravity. And why do Christians always ignore the first part of the verse? How does one spread out the northern skies over empty space? What does that even mean? We have already seen that the sky is not a piece of cloth that you can stretch out above the world. It may have looked that way to Yeshua Ben Hebrew, sitting out with his sheep at night, but it simply isn't true. |
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Post by Wasp on Feb 28, 2010 21:35:43 GMT
TBH I think you are clutching at straws to try and prove me wrong, at the end of the day we could both search websites to counter eachothers points. YOU say brain is not mentioned in the bible but the word memory is stated in the bible and where do we store our memory??
What about the preciousness of snow and the singing noise of the stars etc?? You are looking at the points you made on todays knowledge, like how would anyone years ago have known how big the sea was and how could they possibly know it wouldnt overflow? How would they know that rivers run to the sea?? With limited travel for all people then how many rivers would they all have seen, how many would have been at the rivers end to watch it flow into the sea??
Your comment on blood is another weak point and you are using todays knowledge on blood to assume everyone thousands of years ago would have known the same.
Here is some more from the OT which supported the New Testament
1. The Messiah would be born in Bethlehem - O.T. (Mic. 5:2) - N.T. (Mat. 2:1)
2. The Messiah would be born of a virgin - O.T. (Isa. 7:14) - N.T. (Mat 1:18-23)
3. The Messiah would be a descendant of David - O.T. (Jer. 23:5) - N.T. (Rev. 22:16)
4. Herod would attempt to murder the Messiah - O.T. (Jer. 31:15) - N.T. (Mat. 2:16-18)
5. The Messiah would be betrayed by a friend - O.T. ( Psalm 41:9) - N.T. (John 13:18)
6. The Messiah would be sold for 30 silver coins - O.T. (Zec. 11:12) - N.T. (Mat. 26:15)
7. The Messiah would be crucified - O.T. (Zec. 12:10) - N.T. (John 19:16-18, 37)
8. Lots would be cast for His clothes - O.T. (Psalm 22:18) - N.T. (Mat. 27:35)
Even Jesus being born of a seed of a woman was in Genesis thousands of years before his birth. Try to put the limited knowledge people would have had concerning science into perspective and remember alot of things the bible has said were only believed and taught by man when scientists proved them to be real thousands of years later.
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Post by leeside on Mar 1, 2010 10:23:29 GMT
TBH I think you are clutching at straws to try and prove me wrong, at the end of the day we could both search websites to counter eachothers points. YOU say brain is not mentioned in the bible but the word memory is stated in the bible and where do we store our memory?? What about the preciousness of snow and the singing noise of the stars etc?? You are looking at the points you made on todays knowledge, like how would anyone years ago have known how big the sea was and how could they possibly know it wouldnt overflow? How would they know that rivers run to the sea?? With limited travel for all people then how many rivers would they all have seen, how many would have been at the rivers end to watch it flow into the sea?? Your comment on blood is another weak point and you are using todays knowledge on blood to assume everyone thousands of years ago would have known the same. Here is some more from the OT which supported the New Testament 1. The Messiah would be born in Bethlehem - O.T. (Mic. 5:2) - N.T. (Mat. 2:1) 2. The Messiah would be born of a virgin - O.T. (Isa. 7:14) - N.T. (Mat 1:18-23) 3. The Messiah would be a descendant of David - O.T. (Jer. 23:5) - N.T. (Rev. 22:16) 4. Herod would attempt to murder the Messiah - O.T. (Jer. 31:15) - N.T. (Mat. 2:16-18) 5. The Messiah would be betrayed by a friend - O.T. ( Psalm 41:9) - N.T. (John 13:18) 6. The Messiah would be sold for 30 silver coins - O.T. (Zec. 11:12) - N.T. (Mat. 26:15) 7. The Messiah would be crucified - O.T. (Zec. 12:10) - N.T. (John 19:16-18, 37) 8. Lots would be cast for His clothes - O.T. (Psalm 22:18) - N.T. (Mat. 27:35) Even Jesus being born of a seed of a woman was in Genesis thousands of years before his birth. Try to put the limited knowledge people would have had concerning science into perspective and remember alot of things the bible has said were only believed and taught by man when scientists proved them to be real thousands of years later. Im trying to address each individual claim here, WASP. Hardly clutching at straws. In fact I would consider your own attempts of quoting prophecies in bible text is akin to astrology readings and clutching at straws for clarification of the bibles 'divine instruction'. Quoting the parts that suit in some general way to some event but not quite really accurate but to a believer its 100% accurate. Regarding your newest 'prophecies' can you do me a favour and quote the actual text rather than just someone else's summary of its meaning.... eg. Daniel5:8) god predicted such and such or whatever because I'm not sure what they are or which version ur talking about. Also, can you respond to the young earth 'scientific facts' you quoted and I responded to. With respect, WASP, to claim that there's a 'mountain of evidence' to support young earth creationism is both delusional, mis-informed and frankly.... plain nutty! Young earth theory is based simply on faith and not science. |
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Post by leeside on Mar 1, 2010 14:14:37 GMT
We know where it is stored but they clearly didnt. See, thats a clear example of how you're filling the gaps with what we know now.
I've no idea. Please quote the bible text so i can see for myself.
They had ships and sailed for century's. Im sure it was obvious enough.
You're filling in the gaps with todays knowledge to make them seem prophetic.
Isnt it obvious that a river flows to the sea especially if you happen to live near where a river meets the sea. Hardly ground breaking science. Knowledge spreads. I think you're underestimating the type of people and there general knowledge of their surroundings. These people were not neanderthals. Especially the literate ones who wrote the texts.
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Post by Wasp on Mar 1, 2010 22:10:43 GMT
How do you make out they clearly didnt? Because they do not use the word brain doesnt mean they didnt know about it.
Job 38:22
Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
Isa 55:10
For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
That early on in life??
No I am trying to show how amazing the bible is regarding knowledge then to what we take for granted now.
Might be obvious to those who live near the sea but what about all those that dont?
I am not saying they were, the creation vs evolution is a massive arguement and for us to get into that arguement I think we would get lost trying to prove and disprove points. I beleive in creation but I do not dismiss evolution in part being a tool that the Lord used. You dont agree which is fair enough.
I read a great article on the preciousness of snow and if I can find it I will post it. Here is some more to do with the stars.
The stars have a purpose, both as signs and light: And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." (Gen 1:14-15).
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Post by leeside on Mar 8, 2010 16:05:22 GMT
Just because some scripts make reference to memory does not mean that they understood the function of the brain or that memory is stored in the brain. Again, ur filling in the gaps... Regarding the 'treasures of the snow'? What is said? So, what exactly is so amazingly scientific about that text? All it says is that rain and snow comes from the sky or (heaven as they believed :  and waters the soil allowing crops to grow. Im pretty sure that that was realized by farmers long before any of those scripts were written. The egyptians for thousands of years were growing crops around the cycle of the nile flooding its banks and producing arable soil. They understood the importance of water for the growth of crops. This was millennia before these scripts were written. (regarding sailing) They did have ships/boats back then. You do realize that, right? BTW, how early are you referring to? And how big does it claim the sea was back then? Im mean, does the bible give actual depths and volumes or does it just simply say that the sea is big? Can you quote the text, please. You have shown me nothing of the sort. This is kindergarden level knowledge compared to what the ancient Egyptians and Greeks knew of astronomy, mathamatics and geometry. Pre-dating all these biblical texts. Again, knowledge travels, scripts are written, only the most educated and brightest are afforded the task of writing these down as probably 99% of the rest are illiterate and uneducated. The uneducated ones are not the ones writing these texts. If 'God' was the one who wrote/inspired/or whatever is claimed was behind these texts then judging from what is written I would say he wasnt the most knowledgeable himself and a bit of a bluffer ;D First of all, WASP, you were claiming Young Earth Creationism had a mountain of evidence to back it up which is complete nonsense. There is no scientific argument there whatsoever except maybe on some fundamentalist websites that come out with these young earth 'facts'. All of which is utter bullshit science and has been debunked by real scientists consistently and beyond doubt. I use science and reason to form my view of the world not ancient texts and considering the literal mountain of evidence regarding evolution through natural selection...to doubt it would be akin to doubting that there once existed the ancient roman empire. Even though all the ruins and proof of its existence are around us. Signs: Constellations were known and named long before these texts were written. Light: Well its pretty obvious that light is emanating from those points. Cycles: Again, known and used long before these texts were written. Wasp, with respect, you interpret these general texts like any believer would. You remind me of those psychic mediums audience members on tv or tarot card reader participants, astrology readers etc..... who hear something general and just apply it to something in their lives. They will consider the readings to be both accurate and proof of whatever it is they believe in. Inadvertently, they compliment the facts in their own head and forget about the inaccuracies. However, if the details are scrutinized from a sceptical and rational viewpoint you realize that not a whole lot was actually that accurate at all. |
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Post by leeside on Mar 9, 2010 13:10:24 GMT
 ?? So, WASP. When was Genesis written? Thousands of years bc??? Where do you get this info from? |
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and waters the soil allowing crops to grow. Im pretty sure that that was realized by farmers long before any of those scripts were written. The egyptians for thousands of years were growing crops around the cycle of the nile flooding its banks and producing arable soil. They understood the importance of water for the growth of crops. This was millennia before these scripts were written.
??