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Post by Wasp on Oct 7, 2009 20:40:09 GMT
They are doing what they are meant to be doing when dealing with thugs, or would you have them deal with them differently and allow them to be involved in thuggish sectarian behaviour???
See this just shows how little you know or claim to know. Loyalists before this McDaid's death, years before his death were appealing for trouble to stop, pleading with the police to stop the sectarian violence, drug dealing and criminality, people in the heights area (both Protestant and Catholic) were in the local papers pleading for help from the police and politicians because of the drug dealing, thuggish behaviour and criminality and many warned it was only a matter of time before someone was killed.
Now if you know anything about the Mcdaids then you will know the name was very well known locally beofre anyone lost their lives, you will know the sons enjoyed singing sectarian songs after football matches as they walked around the heights area, you will know they have been involved in quite a number of confrontations with their ownkind and after their fathers murder they have just continued this attitude even though they claim different. One of the sons released a statement saying the family just wanted to be left alone and live in peace, yet 2 nights later at least one of the sons was in Rasharkin shouting abuse at Protestants armed with an airhorn alongside a well known criminal drug dealing thug who has been involved in a number of sectarian incidents over the past number of years.
Many people are fast losing sympathy with the McDaid family because of there continuing bhaviour, this was not some innocent catholic family targeted by loyalists for no other reason than being catholic etc which has been claimed by people on here, claims which I might add were proved wrong by me on this forum. The death of Mr McDaid whom I knew was a tragedy and should never have happened, but you setanta trying to twist this round and blame loyalists for convincing the police to buy into their story is highly insulting to my community considering most from my community condemned the attack outright, others had some reservations and it seems that some of these reservations are coming to light.
Oh and BTW the attacks on Protestant homes in the area havent just happened from the death of Mcdaid, they have been going on for ages. Even a young pregnant sinlge mother was forced to flee her home a number of years ago because she was a Protestant.
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Post by Harry on Oct 8, 2009 7:56:09 GMT
I think they are doing their job. No one should be above the law. If they are innocent nothing will come of it.
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Post by Wasp on Oct 8, 2009 18:20:13 GMT
Who deserved what??? Many people are claimed to be innocent setanta by the courts even though we know they are guilty of plenty of things but just never been caught or insufficient evidence so please dont use that ploy. I do know that Mcdaid had quietened down in later years but was still known to be involved in trouble, not just with the PUL community but within his own, and the area he came from is well known for its infighting. That does not excuse what happened to him. So it takes a source for you to take me serious?? How many people do you know in your area that cause anti-social behaviour but as far as the courts are concerned they are innocent?? Every town has them and rather than twist who I am talking about you know that I am mainly referring to his sons. I am not going to sit and let you difflect from the subject on hand by trying to prove to you I am telling you the truth, that is what you want because you cant handle the truth. Heres a pic of one of the sons 2 days after his brother said to the media that the family did not want any trouble, they wanted to live in peace and didnt want any of this.  Oh and heres another.  Try having a word with leonard, oddly he is very silent concerning the anti-social behaviour but after Protestant homes were attacked on Sunday night by republicans, after the police were attacked, after both communities in the heights called for the police to do more to stop the sectarian criminality and drug dealing in the same area, after local councillors called onm the police to get tough after Sunday nights trouble your colleague Leonard comes out and complains at police heavy handedness saying they over reacted. Funny he says nothing or very little to say when people are being put out of their homes unless it is catholics who are the vicims. He had little to say when republicans attacked the police a few years ago and a policeman was stabbed, he simply said drink may have been partly to blame, yet everyone in the town knows this area is well renowned for its high wino population and you can see the usual suspects almost everyday sitting with their carry outs, yet no condemnation from leonard. AFD has never shown me to be anything on this case, not in the slightest, it was me who proved afd and his assertions wrong. Perhaps you care to take it up again and repost these assertions again incase you need reminded of how wrong they were. Just shows you setanta you just take someones assertions as gospel because they counter what a member of the PUL community is saying, shows how much your own politics is sectarian by ignoring people who live in the area over someone that lives 60 mile away and makes totally inaccurate assertioons. But hey why change the habit of a lifetime, its better to stick with your own so you can demonize my community and try and belittle me with no grounds on this trhead to do so. Suppose it makes it easier for you by avoiding the issue. |
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Post by Wasp on Oct 9, 2009 16:29:35 GMT
Err setanta everyone says the same and knows the same, why the politicans are not naming any single individual could be for legal reasons, wander if the police can supply a list of names of the people they have stopped and questioned but were not charged??
That may be the case in the republic but the authorities here perhaps hold a different view because it could be seen as justifying the attack or increase tensions further.
Totally irrelevant, leonard was speaking of the police handling of the violence, yet the local community as in those who live in and around the area have been in the local papers many times calling for help from these thugs and drug dealers.
Hahha you havent a clue, this was way after their fathers death and this IS NOT THEIR AREA, THIS IS NEARLY 20 MILES AWAY from where they live. The same area where Protestants are being ethnically cleansed by republicans and Protestant families had to flee their homes after living there for years.
Oh no he didnt and all the posts I made are on this forum concerning it but you KNOW THAT ONCE AGAIN i AM PROVING YOU WRONG.
Telling lies again setanta, I really wish you would check your info before making such false claims and telling lies. I said I was surprized at some of the addresses that were given out because a few lived close to the area and at least 1 was arrested at the house. Secondly I never claimed those involved were his neighbours and sick of his antics, infact I said very little concerning MrMcDaid, I mainly referred to others involved such as the well known republican drug dealer and I also did not say anything like that about Damian fleming whom I know well. I did say about people in the area were fed up with the anti social behaviour of republicans in the area otherwise known as sesame street. On the above quote you are a liar, tellling lies to try and discredit me with the telling of false hoods.
Again complete lies, I totally proved afd wrong on this, so here I go again proving you and your feeble attempts at lying wrong again. As I said above 2 came from the area, 1 a stone throw away and 1 a few min walk away. The bar that they left has catholics who both work and drink in it although it is predominately Protestant. The bar beside it is owned by catholics and a mixed crowd drink in it but probably the majority would be catholic. The bar beside that is also owned by a catholic and it would mainly be catholics who drink in there. Both these bars are smaller than some local bars so there wouldnt have been many in drinking. Then they have to pass another catholic owned bar where the majority of clients are catholic but not all, again this is a small bar and the owner is a known nationalist. Then they had to pass 3 other bars, all owned by catholics and where catholics mainly drink although Protestants do drink in 2 of them. Again these are small bars and there wouldnt have been too many in them. They would also have had to pass many catholic homes on the way and if they had went from the pub the other way they would also have had to pass many catholic homes. So your and afds assertions are completely wrong and I have proved them wrong. If it was a case of any victim would do then they just had to walk a few feet instead of to the otherside of town. Please please do some research, I dont take too much joy out of proving you wrong and again you will take the word of someone over 60 miles aways over someone who knows the area very very well because I am a member of the PUL communtiy.
You have addressed every issue with false assertions and lies.
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Post by Wasp on Oct 12, 2009 18:30:29 GMT
Dont make me laugh setanta, afd's post proved nothing and was totally inaccurate filled with assertions based on assertions. Again this proves your sectarian attitude concerning what you want to believe, you want to believe these loyalists had the any catholic will do attitude and I have proved beyond doubt that this thought is complete lies, but you choose to ignore these points because it doesnt fit in with your pure sectarian hatred for my community. You do know that one of the taxi drivers lifted for questioning was a catholic, maybe you dont but you wont believe that either because he wasnt a Prod. See setanta the link you provided only backed exactly what I said concerning afd showing me to be inaccurate and has shown exactly that you dont want to believe the truth because it doesnt fit in with your sectarian politics. You show me one place here in these threads concerning this that I was making simply assertions, if I was making an assertion then I would add this is what I think. Here is another reply to afd which should prove this incase you dont understand and go off with more assertions and false accusations. Afd said his first though was that Mr McDaid was a police informer and I said I honestly wouldnt believe this man was an informer, a republican, an ira supporter, a devout celtic supporter but not a police informer.Anyway here are my answers that I gave to afd which I will remind you of concerning his false accusations. 1) 3 of those people were brought up in and around the sommerset area, not one lived on the actual road but they lived adjacent to it. I am actually surprized at one of the addresses given because 1 lives about 2 minutes away from the road in question. TOO ADD to this one of them was left for dead in a sectairan attack several years ago by local republicans, the victim was sitting at a bar and witnesses (mainly catholic) stated that it was a completely unprovoked attack. 2) No they didnt and you are using emotional points to back your points when hyou know little or nothing about the place. The bar where they left from is a loyalist bar and a few catholics go into it. The bars on either side are mixed bars and 1 is owned by a catholic, another bar on up the street about 30 feet away although it is a mixed bar it is mainly a Protestant bar but a large number of catholics drink in it including staff. The other way again about 30 feet from the loyalist bar is another catholic owned bar where the majority of punters are catholic so why were no people in these bars targeted if they only wanted to murder catholics?  You are completely wrong. 3) Oh and there is another small bar on the way over the town as well, also owned by a nationalist, also is a mixed bar but most of the punters are catholic and this is a wee small bar so you are talking crap. 4) Wrong again, they singled out the individual they were looking for and all hell broke loose. 5) Wrong again with your emotive responses and replies which you have proved you have no knowledge of. If they were looking for easy catholic targets they could have went to several bars a matter of feet away or they could have went to any of the loyalist estates where many catholics live. 6) The purposeful erecting of bunting on such a day has only one aim and that is to provoke a reaction, but it does not justify what happened that day and you are way off the mark with your assumptions. Every single area of the addresses you provided have catholics living in them, surely if it was only catholics they sought to kill they wouldnt have went to an area well known for its drunken and violent republican mobs.7) You have offered merely an opinion that is way off the mark, local communtiy leaders have publically spoken of there surprize at Mcdaid being a community leader, the main witnees is a well known republican drug dealing tout and there is plenty of proof of that. If you know anyone that knows anything about coleraine whether they are Protestant ro catholic they will name the names of the families who are well known criminal thugs in the town and those names will include most of sommerset as well as other places. Try the police and there records, read up on the murder of Paddy Fleming etc etc etc. 8) A republican businessman a number of years ago along with his cohorts from sommerset killed a young Christian man. His crime was having a band uniform on and walking to collect his car in the waterside area after a parade, this same republican businessman and apparent community worker killed him with a final punch that had him fall and hit his head on a step. He wasnt done for murder and he spent only a short time in jail and when he came back to Coleraine he continued his sectarian attitude. There was nowhere near the same media coverage when this young Protestant was killed and everyone claimed it was unintentional, so if that was the case for his death after being puncehed and beaten then surely that will be the case for a man that suffered a broken nose then died of a heart attack due to a heart condition. 9) Let me make myself clear again, I totally condemn the attack on Damien who I also know and Mr McDaid along with all other injured parties, even though his sons are a bad lot my heart goes out to them because no matter what they ever done to others they have lost a father and that is very very sad. What makes it worse their fathers death was a result of years of provocation from bothsides who taunt eachother at everychance. When it comes to who is to blame for provocation in the sommerset area then the blame lies squarely with republicans who have carried out numerous unprovoked attacks for decades. If it was a loyalist area then the blame would lie squarely with loyalists. I ahve nothing to modify, I have told how it is and when you contact republicans in the area ask them about the bars I described where catholics drink and where there would be far softer targets if that was what loyalists were looking fo as in any catholic. Ask them about the chief drug dealing witness who is never out of bother, causes alot of trouble and for some strange reason seems to get off with an awful lot. |
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Post by Wasp on Oct 12, 2009 19:56:29 GMT
Yeah WASP. YOU said, but the addresses given in court say different. The statements from the PSNI, Courts, Media and elected reps say different. You say one thing. The facts say another. Again you are talking crap, are you saying the psni said there are no catholic bars or people between the bar they left and sommerset, are you saying the psni do not know what kind of place sommerset is and do you not realize people can move house or do they have to have lived all their lives in their present address??  |
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Post by Wasp on Oct 12, 2009 19:59:52 GMT
You tell me one thing that I said is different.
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Post by Wasp on Oct 12, 2009 21:56:44 GMT
the addresses dont match what you said.
only YOU have made accusations about McDaid.
only you have said he was delibertly targetted.
everything from the courts, PSNI, media say different[/quote]
Well just shows you have not got a clue setanta and you cant even back up your claims against me.
First of all not once did I ever say he was deliberately targeted, not once. So your completely wrong again.
What accusations about McDaid are false, it was on the Nolan show and community reps from here clearly stated they never knew him to ever be a community rep and you should know that the Nolan show is the biggest show in the country. If he was a community rep then it was in very recent times before his death and I would take the word of a lady who has been a rep for over 30 years word above anyone elses. She should know dont you think.
Concerning the addresses people are entitled to move house or leave their parents house and I dont keep tabs on the movements of everyone in Coleraine. I said at least 3 lived close by, then I said the addresses surprized me especially when 1 was lifted at his parents house yet his address was elsewhere so he alone must have moved. I dont think the addresses are that big a deal do you???
Now again please tell me what the psni etc has said different? 2nd time of asking you.
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Post by Wasp on Oct 13, 2009 17:03:35 GMT
No you havent, I have proved the assertion by the likes of any catholic will do to be completely false, check google earth if you want or ask leonard if he can tell the truth how many bars are between the bar they left and sommerset and how many of them are catholic owned. Err I thought you being a republican you believed in innocent to proven guilty, didnt you say the same about adams and his terror when the media etc along with apparent forensic evidence said otherwise, or maybe its only when it is us Prods that you dont apply that rule. Ask anyone in the town and I know the vast majority will say the same. How bad he was I really dont know, I do know he was a staunch republican and had been involved in trouble including those from his own area. Most of those who live in the area are known troublemakers, fight amongst eachother and the cops are never away from it. Perhaps you could check the amount of times the cops were called to disturbances say in the last 5 years or the distubances they came across. Did I say he was an outright thug?? Anytime I was in Besties company he was never rude to me nor said anything to offend me but that is not proof he was a saint but going by your take on things it is. Then dont debate with me, you simply are trying to avoid the truth and what really went on, it breaks your wee sick fantasies about my community and how bad they are. Check the Nolan show its on radio Ulster and they may still have that show from around the time of McDaids death. He did and not once did I say he was wrong, I said I was surprized at some of the addresses although I think its fair to say people can move home or leave there parents addresses, they could have moved weeks beofre or months before or a few years before so there's no big deal there. I know for definate that 1 of them was thought by many to be living at his parents home but apparently he was meant to have moved very recently. First of all the police would say that about most deaths, we have even heard the police to claim a known ira man was completely innocent, here is part of the post I posted here 'A MURDERED newsagent once described by former RUC chief constable Ronnie Flanagan as “absolutely innocent” has been named in a book as the IRA’s second-in-command in Belfast.' and that came from the chief constable ffs. Damian is a different story and if you want to hear what I know concerning him I will tell you. Not being charged does not make someone innocent and I do not know what convictions Bestie had, if I hear I will say. Let's look at some more of what the police said. 1) There is "no suggestion" the murder of Kevin McDaid in Coleraine on Sunday was orchestrated by the UDA, an assistant chief constable has said. 2) "There is no suggestion it was in any way organised by any particular group. "This was a group of about 15 males who went on a rampage with devastating consequences." AND THEN "Police arrived very quickly after the initial phone calls, and there were up to 60 people engaged in hand-to-hand fighting. Who were the other 45 people??? 3) "The build-up to this was tension, but our understanding was that tension had been diffused. "But events moved very quickly as this maverick group of people moved down in response to flags being put up in the Heights and , as we understand it, sought to try to take down those flags. (once again it rules out the any catholic would do assertion) "That then led to the group disturbance where Kevin lost his life." Now some of what the media has said, 1) One community source claimed to the News Letter that along with Irish tricolours and barricades, masked men were stopping cars going into the Heights area before Mr McDaid's death. He also claimed that phone calls were made from the estate taunting the loyalists in the bar who then came in to remove the flags. And he claimed that a Protestant was attacked in Pates Lane several hours after the attacks on Mr McDaid. Is it understood the man's jaw was broken while he was wearing a Rangers top, and he is being treated in hospital. (The part about the man who was attacked and had his broken is definately true as I know him), the flags and barricades is also true but I dont know about themasked men. Here is some more from people who live in the area; PROTESTANT residents of The Heights in Coleraine say a campaign of sectarian intimidation by a gang of thugs has left them living in fear.
They have condemned the murder of Kevin McDaid, but believe that the media has vilified their community, and has failed to tell the full story about the circumstances that gave rise to the attack.
A number of people agreed to speak to the News Letter, but such are the tensions within the community that none would allow their names to be used, never mind pose for photographs. To go public would lead to reprisals, they said.
An elderly woman, who was forced out of her home of 54 years in The Heights said "living in Coleraine during the Troubles was easier than it has been in the last few years".
"During the Troubles I lived there okay, but now recently any time I went out of the house they were calling me nothing but an Orange bi***.
"There was always friction of some sort in Coleraine, but it was manageable. Then I had my windows put in a few times and the last time I had my front door attacked. I couldn't live there anymore. I couldn't sleep at night."
She claimed there had been "religious cleansing" carried out in the Somerset Drive area of the estate.
"Slowly but surely they have hounded Protestant families out of the area," she said. "They want us to all go away, and some of us have. I couldn't stay in the house I was born in because I could have got a petrol bomb through my window. The police in Coleraine are for nothing.
They kept on telling me they would help and they didn't. Not once."
We also spoke to a businessman who was last week given seven days to close his business and "move out".
He said: "I don't believe the threats came from paramilitaries. These people have no paramilitary connections, even though they say they have. The men, if you could call them that, are thugs. They take their DLA from the Government and sit outside their homes drinking beer for most of the day.
"There are only a few of them into the bargain. If they were lifted off our streets the trouble would end."
The businessman, who employs workers from both sides of the community, said he has been encouraged to shrug off the threat and continue.
A young Protestant mother said the troublemakers in the Heights numbered about 12 people.
"We have gone to unionist politicians and the police and got nowhere," she said. "A lot of people have lost confidence in them both.
"All we see are the police going 'softly softly' with people who are not even meant to be in the area. They just seem to get away with everything." (I suppose they are all lying because someone maybe wasnt charged for these attacks or some of them anyway?)
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Post by Wasp on Oct 13, 2009 17:10:15 GMT
and another time you said he was deliberatly targetted. 4) Wrong again, they singled out the individual they were looking for and all hell broke loose. FFS setanta cant you flaming read, not once did I say McDaid was deliberately targeted. Everyone knows who they were targeting and it was not Bestie it was the piece of drug dealing filth that caused the trouble that day, as stated by members of Damians family. His uncle stated that this same person brought much of the trouble to there area. Get your facts right when you are accusing me of things. Most of the witnesses are thugs well known for their criminality and thuggish behaviour but not all of them. One of Besties relatives on the tv was crying her heart out yet this same ladys son has left many people in hospital including his own and she has been well known for her drunken fights with her husband and neighbours. We are not talking about decent catholic area with a few bad apples, we are talking about an area where most of the people are bad apples BUT NOT ALL. Before you go off on one every town has a street with the likes of these people on them. Going by your viewpoints we have a perfect police force where all people who do wrong are charged. |
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Post by Wasp on Oct 13, 2009 17:56:33 GMT
Many people are fast losing sympathy with the McDaid family because of there continuing bhaviour, this was not some innocent catholic family targeted by loyalists for no other reason than being catholic etc
Ok Setanta I can see what you mean by this so I apologize for any confusion. See its not to hard to admit you said something wrong now is it?
What I meant was or should have said was they were not some innocent catholic family (meaning most of the males in the house) and the reason they would have been hurt or targeted on the actual day and only when the violence started is because they would never be to far from any trouble.
The other points I made concerning someone being deliberately targeted or the person they were looking for was not McDaid, it was the person who caused this trouble in the first place.
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Post by Wasp on Oct 14, 2009 14:57:00 GMT
Right right. How about we wait for the trail and the police ombudsman report before we continue? we've covered just about everything we know on this case, a couple of times each, and we're not going to agree yet, just be going on the information at hand. Fair enough but I accept there will be those found guilty and I have clearly stated that this should never have happened. Do you accept they passed many catholic pubs and homes, do you accept there intention was to remove flags etc and do you accept they could not have the any catholic would do assertion going by the detailed geographical location I gave? |
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Post by Wasp on Oct 15, 2009 16:13:59 GMT
I'll accept they passed many Catholic homes and pubs, but the rest is up for speculation until the trial. Well that was my main point which proved it wasnt a case of any catholic would do. |
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Post by Wasp on Oct 16, 2009 18:45:35 GMT
come on WASP, you've pointed out yourself Reply #19 on Oct 13, 2009, 5:56pm, that things you said could be open to the interpritation. I will go through this again. The police stated they went to remove flags etc and this was after much provocation by certain individuals, I never heard Mr McDaid being one of them, so when I said they would have been hurt or targeted was only after the trouble started and considering the loyalists were outnumbered 3 to 1 according to police figures then I would guess no-one was targeted individually, more of a free for all which BTW also refutes afd claims that they were cowards to scared to go into a small pub with only a few punters. I stand by that, the person I am talking about was named in various papers including Sunday papers, he is a know drug dealing republican criminal who is never too far away when trouble is around. He ran and hid in a house leaving Damian and this is what has angered many of Damians relatives, this scumbag caused the trouble yet ran for it when he got what he was looking for. |
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You are completely wrong.