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Post by Wasp on Sept 22, 2009 22:01:27 GMT
A row has broken out over the failure of an Irish Naval Service ship to fly the union jack while taking part in the tall ships festival in Belfast last month.
According to international protocol, it is customary when a ship visits a foreign port for the vessel to fly the flag of its own country as well as the country it is visiting.
However, the LE Eithne did not fly the union jack when it docked in Belfast port sparking controversy in the unionist community.
DUP MP Jeffrey Donaldson, whose Lagan Valley constituency is just on the edge of Belfast, said:
"I received a number of complaints from constituents who attended the tall ships event and who told me they were disappointed the Irish navy didn't honour the protocol. One would have hoped that post the agreement and the new political dispensation, we would have had the maturity to allow that kind of thing to happen without people evading it," he said.
"I would have no doubt that if the Royal Navy was visiting Dublin or Dun Laoghaire, they would comply with that protocol."
The unionist politician said that on the back of these complaints, he was taking the matter up with the British government.
An Irish Naval Service spokesman told the Sunday Tribune: "It's not practice that any warship would fly the flag of the country that they are visiting and it's not custom or practice for the Irish Naval Service. It's not just the Irish Naval Service which doesn't fly the flag of the country, it's lots of other navies as well."
However, the US navy has confirmed that it flies its own flag as well as the flag of the country it is visiting when it docks in foreign ports.
A US embassy spokesman said: "It's international regulations that the host country flag would fly at the front of the ship and the American flag at the back of the ship."
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Post by Blue Angel on Sept 23, 2009 20:07:21 GMT
It's great to hear with massive unemployment and a major recession etc. that Mr. Donaldson has time to waste on this. If you are in any way trying to imply the Naval Service is composed of a bunch of Republicans or Sinn Fein fellow travellers let me put you straight- most of the members of the Irish Defence Forces detest Sinn Feiners.
LE Eithne you say - well Eithne is the flagship and has been on a fair few other voyages abroad so it's easy to check if the naval service spokesman is telling the truth by looking up images of it in ports overseas. And why is the US navy reference suddenly - is military protocal as followed by them meant to be some modeal everyone else should follow?
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Post by collina on Sept 23, 2009 20:20:43 GMT
A US embassy spokesman said: "It's international regulations that the host country flag would fly at the front of the ship and the American flag at the back of the ship." What flag did the US fly, when they were shooting Cruise Misiles at the citizens of Baghdad from their ships off the coast of Iraq? |
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Post by Wasp on Sept 23, 2009 20:23:40 GMT
It's great to hear with massive unemployment and a major recession etc. that Mr. Donaldson has time to waste on this. If you are in any way trying to imply the Naval Service is composed of a bunch of Republicans or Sinn Fein fellow travellers let me put you straight- most of the members of the Irish Defence Forces detest Sinn Feiners. LE Eithne you say - well Eithne is the flagship and has been on a fair few other voyages abroad so it's easy to check if the naval service spokesman is telling the truth by looking up images of it in ports overseas. And why is the US navy reference suddenly - is military protocal as followed by them meant to be some modeal everyone else should follow? BA are you saying he should say nothing at all and are you going to apply this logic to everything republicans complain about?? Collina regardless of the rights or wrongs of the war in Iraq, you know as well as I do your answer is a silly one. Obviously this thread is about visiting not about any war. |
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Post by Blue Angel on Sept 23, 2009 20:27:18 GMT
What I am saying is he has nothing to complain about, some bizarre logic in the article cited seems to imply if the US does it then all military arms of alll govts should. LE Eithne has visited Hong Kong, the USA and resupplied numerous UN missions (and that HAS included helping to deliver items to British troops en route should Mr. Donaldson care to look up that info) - I'm going to try and do a search and pull up some photos of it in various spots around the world to show it flies the Irish flag on these occassions and not other states. There is nothing here to complain about, someone is making something to complain about.
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Post by Wasp on Sept 23, 2009 20:33:02 GMT
I think it is this bit that he is complaining about - "It's international regulations that the host country flag would fly at the front of the ship............."
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Post by Blue Angel on Sept 23, 2009 20:44:14 GMT
The LE Eithne is a warship and not a civilian ship, sure in the history of naval operations she's a minor warship of a couple of thousand tonnes displacement, but a warship nevertheless. The spokesman for the Naval Service has already told people the Naval Service ships do not fly other countries flags and that this policy is not confined to the Irish Naval Service alone. Here's the Eithne in Boston harbour a few years back - notice it is not flying a US flag either anywhere on the ship and the Irish flag is flying fairly prominently at the front which tends to bear the naval service spokesman out. The US seems to have survived this terrible insult without fallling apart -this sort of stuff is just as silly as some Sinn Fein members grumbling about certain statues - it's people looking hard for something to be offended by. Nearly as bad as when a few people in certain quarters in Ireland started grinding there teeth when an Irish Naval Service ship took part in review for the commeration of Waterloo. upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bc/LE_Eithne-P31.jpg |
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Post by collina on Sept 23, 2009 21:20:12 GMT
I think it is this bit that he is complaining about - "It's international regulations that the host country flag would fly at the front of the ship............." WASP, if a British ship visits Rome, should it fly the Vatican flag, even if the crew protests on religious grounds. |
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Post by Wasp on Sept 23, 2009 21:45:35 GMT
I think it is this bit that he is complaining about - "It's international regulations that the host country flag would fly at the front of the ship............." WASP, if a British ship visits Rome, should it fly the Vatican flag, even if the crew protests on religious grounds. Why would the crew protest on religious grounds?? That is absurd to even suggest that idea. There are plenty of catholics in the Royal Navy and I wouldn't expect any protests on religious grounds no matter what country they are visiting be it a muslim, Hindu or athiest etc. What's your point? Are you saying the irish crew protested on religious grounds or the irish navy for that matter? |
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Post by collina on Sept 23, 2009 22:12:28 GMT
WASP, if a British ship visits Rome, should it fly the Vatican flag, even if the crew protests on religious grounds. Why would the crew protest on religious grounds?? That is absurd to even suggest that idea. There are plenty of catholics in the Royal Navy and I wouldn't expect any protests on religious grounds no matter what country they are visiting be it a muslim, Hindu or athiest etc. What's your point? Are you saying the irish crew protested on religious grounds or the irish navy for that matter? No. I think if the usual courtesy is to fly the flag of the host country, then the Irish vessel should have done so and it was silly not to. What I mean is, if you were the captain of a ship ancoured off Rome, would you fly the Vatican flag if it was your choice? Would you bow for the Pope and kiss his ring (not that ring) as that's the convention/ protocol. BTW, I'd swing for the git by the way. |
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Post by Wasp on Sept 23, 2009 22:47:36 GMT
Agreed. If it was my choice and if it was the done thing then yes I would fly the flag. But I would rather hit it with a nuke. ;D ;D Only kidding. Never ever ever. Nor would I ever call a man father, nor would I ever bow and kiss the ring of any religious leader no matter what faith he belongs to as this would be to do with his faith not anything else. But to compare me meeting the pope on a personal level with a countrys navy is a bit extreme dont you think. Talking about Ratzi heres a mugshot of him. ;D ;D ;D  |
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Post by Harry on Sept 24, 2009 11:06:47 GMT
I fully understand Wasps point but my own view is that it is very trivial. Perhaps Wasp is merely demonstrating the sort of trivial nonsense that is threw at the PUL community constantly from within Republicanism!!
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Post by Jim on Sept 24, 2009 11:40:11 GMT
I fully understand Wasps point but my own view is that it is very trivial. Perhaps Wasp is merely demonstrating the sort of trivial nonsense that is threw at the PUL community constantly from within Republicanism!! That works both ways. |
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Post by Wasp on Sept 24, 2009 14:41:41 GMT
Err isnt it international protocol? And yes Harry in part you are correct in my reasoning.
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Post by Blue Angel on Sept 24, 2009 19:06:51 GMT
It's observed by some navies and not by others - here's a site which has photos of visits by various ships from a variety of navies to Ireland towards the bottom of the page I link to. Notice several ships DO NOT fly Irish flags while docked in Dublin, there's a photo of a Polish navy ship there which is only flying the red and white Polish flag - again it bears out the Naval Service spokesman that countries have differing traditions over this issue. www.irishships.com/photo_album_naval.html |
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