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Post by Wasp on Sept 20, 2009 23:29:01 GMT
How many get the boot Jim as you put it?? Let's just focus on the republic here. I would hate to live the life Her Majesty has to live, no money would ever be worth it. Leaving that aside our Queen is a fantastic ambassador to Britain, has raised millions for charity and has brought in thousands of jobs to the tourist industry and millions into the economy.
I can understand the jealousy that people have for the Royal family and the British in general, with there rich history and millions throughout the world being big fans of the Royal family, but do these people ever sit back and think of all the things the Queen etc have had to give up. Give me a tent in a field anyday compared to the life she has had to live.
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Post by Blue Angel on Sept 21, 2009 7:14:33 GMT
Gawd bless her maggies tea, she don't half make me proud (cue stirring strains of 'Land of Hope and Glory' and massed waving of flags intercut with images of warm beer, cricket on village greens etc. etc. etc.)
In all seriousness though,the British have every right to have the Queen as their ruler if they see fit to - it's not anyone in Ireland's business to tell them otherwise. But, why would anyone care so much if she visits the Republic of Ireland instead of say Georgia or Saudi Arabia?
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Post by Wasp on Sept 21, 2009 8:40:00 GMT
This is both absurd and offensive to people who do not share your selfish and onesided viewpoints. Here is a bit from republic's post 'But Mary also cites another fear, foreshadowed by the historian James H Murphy, that could well be the real reason why the green panjandrum in the Department of Foreign & Sinn Fein Affairs are reluctant to invite her: what if the public welcome were too warm and too effusive? What if a display of popular will were to confirm the complexity of the Irish affection for both a Republic and for the British monarchy?'
The above is showing that there would be a warm welcome for Her Majesty and add that to those people who live in the republic who love Royalty and some of them have been born and bred in the republic so it is obvious many do care in a positive way and not the old republican viewpoints on a Royal visit.
Now add the above to the republic being the closest neighbour of the UK, the fact that our Queen has has had the irish president come to visit her personally several times etc etc isnt it only common decency to return the invite?? Let's not forget either the many many irish who moved to the UK , found employment and enjoyed the many benefits including housing, healthcare, education and of course the benefit system. Shouldnt a visit at the very least happen as a way of saying thank you and showing common courtesy for the many irish living in the UK. I know if many many British moved to the republic and fpound employment or lived off the state then an invite to the irish president should be top of the agenda, especially considering the republic is our closest neighbour.
But hey republicans dont want to accept that, they want to continue with the take take take attitude with not a single ounce of give.
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Post by Bilk on Sept 21, 2009 11:06:02 GMT
As it happens I was in Dublin the day prince Charles visited, I ran into it by accident, I didn't even know he was going to be there that day. The welcome he received was amazing considering the picture painted by some of a royal visit to the republic. He walked along the street shaking hands with everyone (including mine and my wife's) and a great time was had by all. When he left, Dublin went back to being Dublin, what do people think would happen after a royal visit might I ask? Will Dublin be tainted forever after? I don't think so. Come on guys this is the 21st century, world leaders travel around the world like I used to go to Bangor for the day.
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Post by Republic on Sept 21, 2009 16:32:02 GMT
This is both absurd and offensive to people who do not share your selfish and onesided viewpoints. Here is a bit from republic's post 'But Mary also cites another fear, foreshadowed by the historian James H Murphy, that could well be the real reason why the green panjandrum in the Department of Foreign & Sinn Fein Affairs are reluctant to invite her: what if the public welcome were too warm and too effusive? What if a display of popular will were to confirm the complexity of the Irish affection for both a Republic and for the British monarchy?' I agree, the UK is not just another foreign country IMO. There is definitely a more intimate relationship, for better or for worse. I don't think a visit should happen as a 'thank you'. That is insulting and demeaning. It is not as if the british govt took our workers as a favour or to give us a helping hand. They received plenty of return benefits in taxation, innovation, culture etc etc. And many many British do live here, they are the largest group of non-Irish residents here. Some found employment, some live off our state. I know both kinds. |
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Post by Wasp on Sept 21, 2009 17:37:53 GMT
Thank you was not the only reason and perhaps my choice of words were wrong, maybe I should have said acknowledgement. You cannot compare the vast amount of irish living in the UK with the British population in the republic, many of whom have only moved there in recent times and there is no way they would be the same burden on the welfare system as the irish are to the UK. But that's another story which will stray too much from this thread.
At the end of the day all the irish governments, the irish president and obviously the republican community have shown that they are backward, ill mannered and hold on to as many excuses as they can to prevent a visit by our Queen. Irish writers have said the same type of thing and it is time the republic grew up, matured and stopped the teaching of hatred against all things British.
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Post by Republic on Sept 21, 2009 17:51:31 GMT
Thank you was not the only reason and perhaps my choice of words were wrong, maybe I should have said acknowledgement. You cannot compare the vast amount of irish living in the UK with the British population in the republic, many of whom have only moved there in recent times and there is no way they would be the same burden on the welfare system as the irish are to the UK. But that's another story which will stray too much from this thread. That seems bang out of order WASP. I thought we were past the days of stereotyping nationalities as thick or lazy. WASP, I'm a teacher, there is no teaching of hatred of all things British. Maybe you are from a different generation to me, but you need to realise that things have changed. British culture is very influential here, and very popular. Even Bilk said as much in his post about the visit of Prince Charles. Is your anger directed against the Irish establishment, or the Irish people? Or both? |
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Post by Wasp on Sept 21, 2009 18:08:24 GMT
Flip me mate, where did I stereotype anyone?? Where did I say any nationality was thick or lazy???
I am in my late 30's and I can only go by what I have read from Irish writers whom I assume are also catholics. As one writer put it, he said he did not learn his anti-British feelings because of friends or down at the pub etc, he stated it started right in church and throughout school. He also stated the way things were taught and how many things were conveniently left out to keep the hatred going. I have read irish historians stating something similar in particular the way things are taught, the onesidedness of such topics etc etc. Also I have a number of friends who have said similar. Add that to events like plumtilla primary school which I was assured would never happen again, but it did and I am talking about recent times here where Protestants are discriminated in the southern education system.
Of course it is influential in the republic, we had to show you that wheels were round and not square. ;D ;D ;D I actually bought a necklace for my mum in Donegal that had a locket on it with Her Majesty.
Republic no offence mate but I think you have been hanging round with republicans too much or listening to them too much. Where have I ever said anything like you have suggested on any thread concerning the irish people. I clearly said who my anger was directed at and not once did I use the broad sweeping term 'irish people'. You have actually surprized me with your reply as it is a typical reply I would expect from a republican where my post is widely exaggerated, twisted and added to in order to difflect from the topic.
I am in no way accusing you of that mate but that is exactly how your post came across to me.
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Post by collina on Sept 21, 2009 21:02:27 GMT
What family is perfect?? Are there not many leading political figures, community reps who have failed to stand by any values they are meant to represent?? Well it is a real mystery to me when the irish president has made many official visits to the UK and also to meet Her Majesty that these invitiations have not been returned. Are there not people in the republic who would love to have our Queen visit or do you speak on behalf of all citizens in the republic?? You have said the special care to elect a head of state, well I thought republicans didnt believe in things like heirarchy and the monarchy etc, yet they are not bothered by the heirarchy of the catholic church which still has alot of influence on irish life and is the same church that caused untold horrors for decades and decades to the most vulnerable in irish society. Agree with you WASP. I don't know why the President needs to be running all over the place either. If I was a Unionist, I'd be seriously displeased with her rampbling in and out of Northern Ireland. I also agree with your summation of the RCC, apart from the respect you seem to think that Republicans have for the RCC. Any Republican I ever spoke to hated the RCC. Most were atheists who'd have one Protestant recruit over a dozen Catholics. |
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Post by collina on Sept 21, 2009 21:16:17 GMT
Thank you was not the only reason and perhaps my choice of words were wrong, maybe I should have said acknowledgement. You cannot compare the vast amount of irish living in the UK with the British population in the republic, many of whom have only moved there in recent times and there is no way they would be the same burden on the welfare system as the irish are to the UK. But that's another story which will stray too much from this thread. At the end of the day all the irish governments, the irish president and obviously the republican community have shown that they are backward, ill mannered and hold on to as many excuses as they can to prevent a visit by our Queen. Irish writers have said the same type of thing and it is time the republic grew up, matured and stopped the teaching of hatred against all things British. WASP you should pay a visit to Dublin sometime. You think we hate the British? See all the ManU and Livepool tops. Turn on RTE or TV3 and your bound to land on a British soap or reality show. British bands tour here and sell out shows all the time as do British comedians. Jack Charlton is one of our great heroes and he's English. If you seriously believe that the Irish are thought to hate all things British, than our Education system is as a great a failure as the Health system. |
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Post by Wasp on Sept 21, 2009 21:17:02 GMT
Collina you are about the only republican that spoke out in the strongest terms possible about the recent abuse reports so I am not going to question your views past or present on the RCC in Ireland. However I strongly disagree with your assertion on most republicans being athiest etc, well this side of the border anyway.
TBH I think it would be normal practice for our 2 countries leaders to visit eachother but it absolutley pisses me off in the sameway you have said if you were a Unionist concerning the irish president visiting here on official business while our Queen hasnt been invited once in return. Outrageous manners on ireland's behalf and believe me if it was the other way around I would be in full agreement with nationalist/republicans saying the same concerning their president not being invited to the UK.
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Post by Wasp on Sept 21, 2009 21:25:42 GMT
I have been a number of times but I prefer Sligo.  I do not doubt this at all, nor would I question it. By all things British I am not talking about football etc, I am talking about how history is portrayed to children via schools, I am talking about how those from my community and some British governments have been demonized via education and the church, how the monarchy is viewed and any possible visit is viewed by certain people/groups/government/president in the republic and by a large number in N.Ireland etc etc and how Britain gets much of the blame for all of Ireland's ills right through history to the present day (republicans in N.Ireland since partition). We have had quite a few figures from the RCC being involved with the ira including membership, we have had an irish prime minister arrested for gun running, we have Protestant school children being discriminated against in recent times nevermind from years ago, we have those from an Orange background unable to walk anywhere apart from the arse end of nowhere due mainly to republicans etc etc. The list goes on. |
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Post by Republic on Sept 21, 2009 23:26:36 GMT
WASP, I am a primary school teacher. My undergraduate degree was in History. I have a particular interest in how History is taught in the Irish education system.
I can assure you that your perception is wrong.
One of the aims of the History curriculum is ''to foster a willingness to explore personal attitudes and values and to promote an openness to the possibility of changing one’s own point of view''.
You are clearly referring to the way history WAS taught in Irish schools. Up until about 25 years ago, the Irish war of independence was considered politics by quite a few people, not history.
That may be a possible cause of the biased viewpoints.
I know that history was taught badly in Irish schools in previous generations. My own father is testament to that!!
But that statement applies to many countries. The USA, France, the UK all give airbrushed accounts of their own history at times.
And in fairness, even if I was hanging out with republicans (which I haven't!), I still possess a brain to formulate my own thoughts! I thought you knew that by now!
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Post by Republic on Sept 21, 2009 23:27:30 GMT
# develop an appreciation of the perspectives and motives of people in the past and accept that individuals and events should be understood in their historical context
# be aware that the attitudes and behaviour of people may be influenced by their understanding of the past and by their past experiences
# respect and value a range of opinions and acquire open, questioning attitudes to the beliefs, values and motivations of others
# develop tolerance towards minorities in society and appreciate the contribution of various ethnic, cultural, religious and social groups to the evolution of modern Ireland
more from the Irish curriculum!
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