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Post by Jim on Sept 2, 2009 4:42:37 GMT
I couldn't give a shite about your Queen mate if it was up to me she could visit til shes blue in the face
I'm done with this thread, I'm talking to a brick wall. Go phone Gordon Brown or picket Westminster if you feel that strongly about it.
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Post by earl on Sept 2, 2009 12:35:18 GMT
You may have well been chasing your tail Jim. If you had of gotten Gordon and Brian on the phone to explain it all, it still wouldn't have mattered.
Yes WASP, we are only joking about how diplomatic relations and invites work. Jim here is studying the subject at 3rd level, so he knows exactly how to misinform and fool you. The real reason the Queen of England hasn't been in the ROI is the exact reason you know in your heart and hope to be true; we can't stand her. We can't stand her, her family, who she represents and her corgi's. We can't stand her so much we don't want her about the poxy place. Only the other day Gordon Brown was on the phone asking Brian what the story was with a visit and Brian told him to and quote, "fuck right off you one eyed Brit bastard". Apparently this upset the Queen of England very much and she was crying as she sat by the phone which never rang.
See WASP, ask the same question again, and again, and again, and eventually you'll get the answer you wanted to hear, correct or not.
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Post by Blue Angel on Sept 2, 2009 12:49:19 GMT
How can you hate those loveable little Corgi's - you naughty, naughy man Earl.
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Post by Wasp on Sept 2, 2009 21:26:45 GMT
You may have well been chasing your tail Jim. If you had of gotten Gordon and Brian on the phone to explain it all, it still wouldn't have mattered. Yes WASP, we are only joking about how diplomatic relations and invites work. Jim here is studying the subject at 3rd level, so he knows exactly how to misinform and fool you. The real reason the Queen of England hasn't been in the ROI is the exact reason you know in your heart and hope to be true; we can't stand her. We can't stand her, her family, who she represents and her corgi's. We can't stand her so much we don't want her about the poxy place. Only the other day Gordon Brown was on the phone asking Brian what the story was with a visit and Brian told him to and quote, "fuck right off you one eyed Brit bastard". Apparently this upset the Queen of England very much and she was crying as she sat by the phone which never rang. See WASP, ask the same question again, and again, and again, and eventually you'll get the answer you wanted to hear, correct or not. No need for the sarcasm earl, it doesnt help. Well you see earl in 2008 the current position of the Irish Government was, that it would be a mistake for a trip to occur until devolution is completed with the change in judicial and policing authority, strikes many in Northern Ireland as needlessly churlish. Isnt it weird that a woman who has been in many many countrie throughout the world has not been in the country closest to the UK, the same country whos own president has visited the UK numerous times officially with no preconditions. Talking about preconditions isnt it republicans who bleat on about not having preconditions, yet the irish government is doing exactly that. Then from another irishtimes article in 2009 it says the following; She has reigned for almost 57 years and been to almost every country on earth, save that nearest to her. In 1993, president Mary Robinson paid a successful personal visit to Queen Elizabeth and the two were photographed having tea together. (so 16 years later still no invite for her majesty, real courtesy there now isnt there)? Though the queen did have a hostile reception in Belfast in 1977, with bad vibes reverberating from Dublin: both the Irish Times and the Irish Independent published astringent editorials saying she should never have been allowed to set foot in the North in these sensitive times. (fucking neck on them) Robinson saw Queen Elizabeth again in 1996, when The Soldiers’ Song was played at Buckingham Palace:(13 years later still no invite) President McAleese has now met Queen Elizabeth five times; she speaks openly of how well they get along together, and openly, too, about her desire to welcome the monarch to Dublin, and of Queen Elizabeth’s readiness to visit the Republic of Ireland whenever an invitation is forthcoming. An exchange of state visits between the two heads of state is the logical symbol of normalisation of relations. There is still a sense of hesitation. There is always a fear that a royal visit might arouse extreme-republican hostilities. But the most compelling argument is that it is abnormal that Elizabeth II, in her long reign since 1952, could have visited almost every country in the world, but is yet to be welcomed by the closest island nation.Until that is altered, we can never say that Anglo-Irish relations have achieved normality. The in March 2008 there was controversy when after a meeting with the Queen in Belfast, Irish President Mary McAleese appeared to link a visit to the NI Assembly assuming responsibility for policing and the courts. And also McAleese, a Belfast-born Catholic, said Ireland could not host a visit by a British monarch until after the Northern Ireland administration receives remaining key powers from Britain. "When that is done, when devolution (of British power) is completed, then anything is possible," she said. "We know her majesty wishes to come, and we wish her to come ... and we hope it will be sooner rather than later." Counters all the bluff that has been posted here now doesnt it? |
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Post by Republic on Sept 3, 2009 18:24:39 GMT
Yeah but WASP, McAleese said that. She has no control over the issue. It is up to the two govts.
You are right, a visit is long overdue. But you cannot blame the Irish govt alone for that. State visits are a matter for the two govts.
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Post by Republic on Sept 3, 2009 18:30:31 GMT
Something fishy about this and I would say all is not as it seems regarding the info you have posted, more like a veiled mask of intolerance against our Queen. That is not the case. There is no veiled intolerance against the Queen in the RoI. There is only tolerance, and open, unveiled intolerance. Those that are intolerant towards the Queen certainly do not hide it. Thankfully, they are in the minority. WASP, can I ask why you assume that the reason for not having a visit from the Queen is due to bigotry? Do you think so little of us? Why would you not assume there is some behind-the-scenes instead? The lack of a visit does not neccessarily equal a lack of tolerance. Yet you just assume it. It seems you either think that southerners are the same as republicans from NI, or else you just think we are intolerant. Neither of which are true. |
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Post by Wasp on Sept 3, 2009 21:08:36 GMT
Yeah but WASP, McAleese said that. She has no control over the issue. It is up to the two govts. You are right, a visit is long overdue. But you cannot blame the Irish govt alone for that. State visits are a matter for the two govts. The fact she did say that wouldnt that make it blatantly obvious to her government that she doesnt think it is the right time for a visit, the fact the irish government has said same isnt it obvious the British gov are going to follow with a similar line to show there is still good relations with the republic and how they want it all to be right??? |
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Post by Wasp on Sept 3, 2009 21:24:37 GMT
I disagree, with the above you said there will also be those who veil or thinly veil there intolerance of the Queen. Statements gave by the irish gov and president IMHO are thinly veiled shades of intolerance no matter how much on the other hand they try to be all nicey nice.
I agree but even the veiled intolerant ones have shown their intolerance albeit in a different way than others.
I would certainly like to think so.
First of all republic, you are not part of the 'us' nor are many people like you in the republic. Common manners and decency is to return an invite when one head of state visits another country and you would certainly think it would be the case with our countries respective closest neighbours? But not with the republic, the various statements gave by the irish gov, the irish president is proof of the precdonditions placed upon any would be visit by Her Majesty, no conditions were placed upon your president. The soldier song was even played when your president met Her majesty. No intolerance shown by the British or our Queen but the same cannot be said about the irish gov and the irish president.
When any Unionist mentions when your president insulted the majority of people in N.I we are told didnt she apologize for that, we get critisized about our religious beliefs about forgiveness etc, very very rich coming from anyone who opposes Her Majesty's visit and those who support there gov and their president on there ongoing stance concerning a visit by our Queen. Unbelievable hypocricy.
It certainly does and you know it. After 16 years of visits between McAleese and Her Majesty there is still no invite. Name me one other nation that has its head of state make numerous visits to another country and has numerous meetings with that country's head of state and have not returned the invite?? Now add the fact it is the closest neighbours of each of these countries and you maybe will see what I am getting at.
If you have read my posts on here you will know I have many southern friends so I do not think what you have said at all.
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Post by Republic on Sept 10, 2009 7:36:14 GMT
www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/the-impetuous-separation-between-ireland-and--the-crown-in-1948-was--infantile-and-illconsidered-1881295.htmlTwin fates await any author courageous enough to deal with the issue of Ireland and the British crown: the first is to be stereotyped, and the second is to be abused. Yet the twin agenda at work in such pernicious simplification is always set by a vociferous minority, who are usually able to examine their own hearts and see therein what is best for the Irish people, no matter what the latter might themselves actually wish for. Now it is at this point that one is expected to declare one's opinions on the crown and the shamrock, in order thereby to establish one's own national bone fides. In my case, since I have a slight reputation for being somewhat anti-republican, any temporising on the issue would be confirmation that I am a 'West Brit'. Yet the continued and unique use of that racial epithet, even on university campuses and on the letters page in this newspaper, when all other such terms -- about Jews and Africans, French and Germans are taboo in modern Ireland -- is proof of how Anglophobia is still culturally acceptable in Ireland. Actually, the plain people of Ireland usually know best in these matters. It is only self-appointed elites who have a clear view about complex issues, such as, for example, the relationship between the British crown and the Irish peoples. But most Irish people, in addition to being more tolerant than their leaders, are also sadly reluctant to voice their opinions -- which then gives the braggart the self-appointed right to speak for the majority. And perhaps more than any other culture in Europe, we are up to our follicles in such finger-wagging, sneering know-alls. I hope they choke to death on Mary's Kenny's latest and splendid work, 'Crown and Shamrock -- Love And Hate Between Ireland And The British Monarchy' (New Island). In terms of personalities, there really have been no bad British monarchs since the advent of Queen Victoria: no arrogant fools or intolerant bigots. But no British king or queen can reasonably be expected to know the Irish, when the governments that serve them are usually as baffled by the Irish as an African pygmy would be upon seeing a gaping oyster for the first time. Listen: believe me on this -- here I really do know best. A genuine and sympathetic English knowledge of Ireland is -- to so many English eyes -- too often a sign of a profound and even unhealthy eccentricity. So any interest at all by a British monarch in Ireland is actually a sign of a very flattering zeal. Victoria, of course, is the notorious Famine queen, the heartless harridan who sent £5 to the starving of Ireland, at the same time she sent the same amount of money to Battersea Dogs' Home. I cannot count how often I have been told this complete fiction -- especially in west Belfast -- as a gospel truth to match The Last Supper and The Sermon on the Mount. In fact, poor old Vicki gave £2,500 to Irish Famine relief -- at least £400,000, or €500,000 in today's money. You might well say that she could and should have given more: but any of those three figures -- £5, £2,500 or £400,000 -- is rather more cash than Bob Geldof and Bono together have ever publicly given to, say, Africa. The impetuous separation between Ireland and the crown in 1948 was infantile and ill-considered. It was merely the weak and querulous Taoiseach John A Costello trying to out-green his coalition partner, the reptilian Sean McBride, himself only recently an exile from the IRA. And of course that is a key feature to the relations between nationalist Ireland and Britain: the tone is invariably set by braggadocio rejectionists, (accompanied by drunken lounge-bar declarations of "Up the Republic!") than it is by careful calculation of what our national needs might be. No doubt fear of the verdant bully-boys -- or their ochre counterparts -- has been one reason why Queen Elizabeth has never set foot upon the only state with which the United Kingdom has a land border. This is nice: for our airspace is routinely trespassed into by British aircraft saving Irish lives, simply because this 'independent' Republic has declined to invest in the necessary air-sea rescue aeroplanes. Grown-ups should not be behaving in this way. If the North is the obstacle then, as Mary asserts in her shrewd and measured epilogue to this most wonderfully insightful book, it is pointless to wait for a "final settlement" before the queen visits here. To bide unto the perfect day is to bide until eternity.
But Mary also cites another fear, foreshadowed by the historian James H Murphy, that could well be the real reason why the green panjandrum in the Department of Foreign & Sinn Fein Affairs are reluctant to invite her: what if the public welcome were too warm and too effusive? What if a display of popular will were to confirm the complexity of the Irish affection for both a Republic and for the British monarchy?But even if it did, DF&SFA need not fret too much about our national self-esteem and the English perceptions thereof: because almost no one in England ever notices what happens in Ireland.
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Post by Wasp on Sept 11, 2009 21:01:22 GMT
'But Mary also cites another fear, foreshadowed by the historian James H Murphy, that could well be the real reason why the green panjandrum in the Department of Foreign & Sinn Fein Affairs are reluctant to invite her: what if the public welcome were too warm and too effusive? What if a display of popular will were to confirm the complexity of the Irish affection for both a Republic and for the British monarchy?'
Is Ireland really that insecure or is this just another feeble attempt to keep any excuse they can think of going to prevent common courtesy and manners from taking place by inviting Her Majesty to Ireland just like the irish president has been invited a number of times to the UK and not forgetting several visits with Her Majesty herself??
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Post by collina on Sept 19, 2009 11:56:09 GMT
Quite why the British get so upset about an unelected Monarch, whose family's behaviour is completely unrepresentative of traditional British values is a bit of a puzzle to me.
Why the British government expect citizens of a Republic (who take special care to elect a head of state) to have any interest in a visit by Royalty is a complete mystery.
Can anyone remember the last high-profile visit by any Euro-monarch that got any attention here at all?
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Post by Jim on Sept 19, 2009 12:26:21 GMT
The Popes pretty close.
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Post by collina on Sept 19, 2009 12:52:48 GMT
He'll not be coming here anytime soon either. Even more unwelcome than the Queen. |
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Post by Wasp on Sept 20, 2009 18:19:14 GMT
What family is perfect?? Are there not many leading political figures, community reps who have failed to stand by any values they are meant to represent??
Well it is a real mystery to me when the irish president has made many official visits to the UK and also to meet Her Majesty that these invitiations have not been returned. Are there not people in the republic who would love to have our Queen visit or do you speak on behalf of all citizens in the republic?? You have said the special care to elect a head of state, well I thought republicans didnt believe in things like heirarchy and the monarchy etc, yet they are not bothered by the heirarchy of the catholic church which still has alot of influence on irish life and is the same church that caused untold horrors for decades and decades to the most vulnerable in irish society.
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Post by Jim on Sept 20, 2009 22:28:50 GMT
What family is perfect?? Are there not many leading political figures, community reps who have failed to stand by any values they are meant to represent?? [/quote] Ofcourse there have; difference is we can give them the boot. I hear lizzie is after £44m to do up her gaff.. I could do with £44 million. |
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