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Post by earl on Jun 9, 2009 16:18:32 GMT
With counting in the Republic's local, European and bye-elections now complete, the political parties have begun the process of analysing the results.
Sinn Fein had a mixed performance but as our Dublin correspondent Shane Harrison now suggests, the party is having difficulty striking a chord with the Republic's voters.
The election results show there is a lot of anger in the Republic about the government's handling of the economic downturn.
Unemployment is rising, taxes have been raised, public spending is being cut back, more money is being borrowed, and all that is on top of a banking crisis fuelled by property speculators.
Just the conditions, you would have thought, for left-wing parties to flourish.
Yes, if you're in the Labour Party or in far-left groupings like the Socialist Party or the People Before Profit organisation.
So, why did Sinn Fein, with a lot more posters, fail to make similar headway?
That's the question republicans must start answering.
Only Mitchel McLaughlin has publicly admitted the results were disappointing.
The official line is that Sinn Fein is happy with the outcome because it was trying to consolidate the gains it made five years ago.
On the plus side, the party made progress in the local elections in different parts of the country, most notably in Limerick and Cork, but those gains are unlikely to provide a springboard to Dail success in the next general election.
And Toireasa Ferris polled extremely well in the South constituency in the Europeans, without taking a seat.
She should retain Kerry North if her father, Martin, decides to retire at the next general election.
Against that, the party's share of the vote in the local elections was marginally down on five years ago; it lost councillors in Dublin and Wexford and the deputy leader, Mary Lou McDonald, failed to retain her Dublin European seat.
Not only that, she finished fifth behind Joe Higgins of the Socialist Party and Fianna Fail's Eoin Ryan.
Dubliners preferred a passionate Trotsky-ite to an Adams-ite.
Sinn Fein's difficulties continued when veteran Dublin city councillor Christy Burke resigned on Tuesday, just days after he was re-elected.
It's clear that the tide that went out on the party in the 2007 general election has not come back in.
It is difficult to avoid the partitionist conclusion that for many voters in the Republic, a Sinn Fein led by Gerry Adams is perceived as predominantly a Northern Ireland party and one which, despite the peace process, has Troubles baggage.
That perception will only change over time.
And while Sinn Fein's main policy is opposition to the border, the reality of partition also seems to work against the party at another level.
It's not always easy to square being in opposition in one jurisdiction and in government in the other.
Eamon Gilmore's Labour - alone among the Dail parties and free from the responsibilities of government - felt able to oppose some of the government's measures introduced to stabilise the Irish banking crisis last Autumn.
Sinn Fein, mindful of its executive role in Northern Ireland and despite murmuring from some activists south of the border, supported the coalition along with Fine Gael, the main opposition party.
Opinion poll ratings consistently suggest that Mr Gilmore, whose critics accuse him of populism, is now, not surprisingly, the most popular politician in the Republic.
The performance of the Sinn Fein TDs has also come in for criticism.
But without the numbers and speaking rights in the Dail, it's difficult for the party's representatives to make an impact.
For Sinn Fein to become more relevant south of the border, it has to resonate more with the everyday lives and concerns of ordinary people, and it has to get the likes of Mary-Lou McDonald, Senator Pearse Doherty and Toireasa Ferris elected to the Dail, while also retaining their existing seats.
Based on this week's results, that may be easier said than done.
It's not that long ago that Sinn Fein was confidently looking forward to the centenary of 1916 and being in government both north and south of the border.
It's still possible; after all there are seven years until then.
And while a lot of work has been done on that particular project, there's a lot more to do.
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Post by Republic on Jun 16, 2009 7:32:08 GMT
Out of interest, what do you think went wrong for Sinn Féin in the elections setanta? And why? And how can this can be rectified?
Or do you consider it to have been a good election?
I often think SF creates bad PR all by themselves e.g. Toirease Ferris refusing to condemn Jerry McCabes murder. Why don't SF just condemn the murders when they are asked about them? The media would find little controversy after that. Or is it a case of not wanting to be seen to be against the struggle in any way? I really don't get it. Now I can understand SF frustration at always being asked those Qs. But they probably always will be asked those questions until they stop throwing fuel on the fire, ie fudging and avoiding issues like that.
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Post by Republic on Jun 16, 2009 7:32:59 GMT
Or is it simply down to their economic policies?
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Post by Republic on Jun 16, 2009 16:19:43 GMT
Thanks for the reply.
I just read some of the comments underneath the article, one regarding the IRA merchandise.
Surely you must admit that does your party no favours?
Trying to 'sell' a serious political struggle just looks strange, doesn't it?
You wouldn't try it with other issues, like a local hospital issue, or something like that. So why try it with the northern situation?
It does look like an attempt to glorify the war in NI.
It can only serve to attract the wrong kind to your party, the type that think violence is cool.
sf doesn't seem to want to make a break from it's past though, why else would it be selling IRA merchandise?
Of course the media will trot out the 30 years stuff then?
If you can say MacCabes death was wrong, why can't Ferris do the same? Surely it would show voters that SF have moved away from their past once and for all??
Its all about image, and she created a bad image as a result of that, albeit with helpings from the media.
Or are there unspoken reasons that SF cannot condemn certain actions?
Not that I think these were the most important issues in the last election, far from it. But they still had an effect on your campaign IMO.
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Post by An Fear Dubh on Jun 16, 2009 22:04:45 GMT
I read some of the comments and I find the one from Michael more worrying, than following the media game sensationalizing, and headline making.
Michael said, "Sinn Fein needs to realise that local politics is about a presence on the ground all the time not just the 6 weeks before the election. The reason Sinn Fein did badly in my area of Fingal was fielding an unknown candidate without an established record of local work or involvement with local issues, inept organisation on the ground, the apparent absence of any sustained canvassing and their total eclipse by Labour and the Socialist Party who between them outpolled Sinn Fein by 10:1. SF got a mere 3% of first preferences, against 6% in 2004. They got less than half the vote of the Seniors Solidarity Party which was assembled from scratch by Mr Wolfe and a team that admitted to being total novices in political organisation and experience. The Socialist Party works tirelessly on local issues. Many may not agree with their philosophy yet admire their tenacity and self sacrifice. SF cannot just coast on the reputation of Gerry Adams or the admittedly solid media performance of Mary Lou. They need to connect with local people on local issues. Quite frankly 97 out of 100 voters in Fingal care little about Northern Ireland when it comes to local elections and SF have yet to realise this."
As Eoin said in his article SF in the north built on their ability to work for people at Council level. I am not sure many would change there voting pattern solely on a election campaign. But if you provide a service you should get paid.
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Post by Republic on Jun 17, 2009 14:06:24 GMT
It's honouring our history, everyone every where does it in their own way. Go the old Collins Barracks and you'll see 600 years of the same thing, and there's a shop there to. Same thing. No it's not the same thing. It is not being honoured in an educational, informative, academic, or respectful way. It's glorification. It's dishonest to compare it to a museum. OK. That sentence doesn't make sense. I said 'It can only serve to attract the wrong kind to your party, the type that think violence is cool. ' You are starting from a dishonest point, ie that what is sold in the SF shop is the same as a museum. The US govt doesn't seem to sell t-shirts about fighting against Germans, neither does the Irish govt sell t-shirts displaying hatred for the black and tans. Your comparison is false. Anyway, my point remains, your memorabilia and the way in which the troubles are glorified, do nothing expect attract the wrong kind of people to your party. Ok, fine. is there much of a difference? why is wrong, or did she say why? You never know until you try. It can't hurt the party anymore than at the moment. I think unspoken reasons could be: a fear of alienating the party's hardcore support, or actually a real belief that it was ok to murder a garda if it was in pursuit of a UI. I don't know for sure, thats why I asked. I think a lot of unspoken reasons influence SF's actions and statements. |
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Post by An Fear Dubh on Jun 17, 2009 20:48:09 GMT
I think that selling merchandise from any historical perspective is the same thing just because the financial muscle allows it to be packaged as legitimate does not change what it is. So whether it is packaged as an educational museum or a tacky t-shirt it is still historical exploitation. And I think every political faction is involved in doing this in various ways, and to say it is dishonest to compare the two is being politically biased either towards one political ethos or against one. We see plenty of tacky t-shirts from American political parties, the US government does not need revenue from merchandise but there are plenty of tacky t-shirts about, Desert Storm, Iraq, and Afghanistan. I think the comparison is legitimate. In West Belfast there are at least 2 new republican museums opened. Previously any such establishments would have being raided and items taken away (illegally) that would have made such ventures pointless.
Let us be honest, most of the stuff from the SF shop is for the American market, where a higher price can be achieved. Local people are not naive and only those (and I do not include you in this Republic) who wish to gain politically try to exploit this market which is not available to other political parties.
While I am not a member of SF, I can tell you from my past experience that the type of people that you think might purchase such merchandise and want to join that party would very quickly realize that they were mistaken in the assumptions you have concluded.
On the murder of Garda McCabe, it was wrong, their actions were outside the standing orders, and only because of their arrest did they avoid discipline. Personally and many others prefer to hold a united front to external view, and comrades will not be hung out to dry for political expediency, even though they may have been shot dead for breech of discipline. But in similar circumstances I may have copied their actions.
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Post by Republic on Jun 18, 2009 10:23:22 GMT
I think that selling merchandise from any historical perspective is the same thing just because the financial muscle allows it to be packaged as legitimate does not change what it is. So whether it is packaged as an educational museum or a tacky t-shirt it is still historical exploitation. And I think every political faction is involved in doing this in various ways, and to say it is dishonest to compare the two is being politically biased either towards one political ethos or against one. We see plenty of tacky t-shirts from American political parties, the US government does not need revenue from merchandise but there are plenty of tacky t-shirts about, Desert Storm, Iraq, and Afghanistan. I think the comparison is legitimate. In West Belfast there are at least 2 new republican museums opened. Previously any such establishments would have being raided and items taken away (illegally) that would have made such ventures pointless. I can not agree with the view that museums are on the same level as the kind of t-shirts we are talking about. They have no educational value. I accept your point about US parties producing t-shirts. This is interesting, I had never really considered this before. Ok, this is the type of straight talking that SF do not engage in (for obvious reasons). It's refreshing to hear why they give such responses. I think there is much less room to diverge from the party line in SF than in other parties. FF and FG do not seem to have such a strong hold over their members. Maybe their members are less disciplined or more error-prone than SFs. Do you/did you follow the election campaigns in the south AFD? What did you think of the SF campaign? |
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Post by earl on Jun 18, 2009 11:53:52 GMT
So childish pap like this is for the yankee market? www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/images/scumbagsmall.jpg?osCsid=db330a441b94c9b89f999653ee19f036I'd expect O'Leary and Ryanair to pull a cheap publicity stunt like that, or some low brow, low grade online t-shirt shop, but not a legitimate political party. Somehow I doubt if a single yankee knows or cares who FF are. And look at this for tack: www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=324&osCsid=db330a441b94c9b89f999653ee19f036Do you get a free caravan with that? I hope it goes with the rest of me sovereigns. More ignorant tack: www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/images/bobbyche.jpg?osCsid=db330a441b94c9b89f999653ee19f036How many people were executed by the man himself in the pogroms after Castro took over? Not exactly a figure I'd want to associate with. Shameless plugging: www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=23_32&osCsid=db330a441b94c9b89f999653ee19f036"an Irish journal", "an Irish voice""an Irish eye" - Irish shite more like it. Everytime he fancies a new holiday home in Donegal, or build an extension or do up the kitchen he must release a book. Gerry: "The wife is looking for a new fancy microwave." Martin: "How can you afford that on your meagre 'socialist' salary comrade?" Gerry: "Ah sure I'll hockey out a new book. 'An Irish Arse: the inside story on how Gerry wrote all his books and how to trim a good beard." Ken Loach, a true socialist, would have something to say about this shameless commercialism and cashing in. www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/images/shookshirt2.jpg?osCsid=db330a441b94c9b89f999653ee19f036Bobby Sands photo + Ripping off Andy Warhol = Cha-Ching comrades! Who knew Marxists had such a talent for commercial cash ins! www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/images/sandspost.jpg?osCsid=db330a441b94c9b89f999653ee19f036Andy Warhol practically invented the manufacturing of art and turned into an even more capitalist enterprise than it was. Great inspiration. The irony isn't lost on me. WTF has a football club got to do with SF? Did Bertie have FF hawking Man Utd gear when he was in power? Something tells me the yanks don't know too much about this either. www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/images/celticdvd.jpg?osCsid=db330a441b94c9b89f999653ee19f036They have a 'garrison sport' DVD, but no GAA DVDs? 5 quid for 3 of the tackiest cheap ass pens around? Viva la revolution comrades! We shall spread our socialist ideals by charging an extortionate rate for muck. www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=56&products_id=611&osCsid=db330a441b94c9b89f999653ee19f036Enough Irish To Get By CD - As demonstrated by the SF leadership. It won't get you through a weekend in a Gaelteacht, or keep the bean an tí off your back, but it's enough to stumble through a day at Stormont a cara! www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=56&products_id=614&osCsid=db330a441b94c9b89f999653ee19f036Advertisement*Not enough plastic in your Paddy? *Do you want to remember your 'heroes' in as tacky a fashion as possible? *Need more jewellery and bling to go with your new Nike runner and tracksuit combo? *Need to read about Gerry on Gerry, talking about Gerry with an exclusive inside perspective into Gerry's mind as he thinks about Gerry? * Need a cheap ass pen while longing to experience what it's really like to be fucked in the ass in the H blocks? Well a cara, today's your lucky day. Just visit the SF online bookstore where commercialism meets communism comrade (I suppose most of the plastic shite was produced in Communist China). Visit us next week where we will be selling our mothers in a brand new section. A top O' the mornin' and a big too-ra-loo-ra to our Yankee brethren. To be sure, there's mighty craic and savings to be had at the bookstore, to be sure to be sure. Bejaysus you too can be authentically Irish with a plastic pen and necklace. I'm surprised that we're not hawking Aran sweaters, but I don't think our Chinese suppliers sweatshops can produce cheap ass knock offs just yet. Tiocfidh ar lá suckers! |
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Post by earl on Jun 18, 2009 13:33:02 GMT
You would lose that wager. Thre's no point advertising that you are a fiend. My housemate on the other hand, once famously went wandering around the local supermarket hunting for munchies, with a big baked head on him, wearing a hash leaf t-shirt, carrying a suspicious metal briefcase packed with rolling and smoking paraphernalia.
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Post by Blue Angel on Jun 18, 2009 13:34:53 GMT
A lot of that stuff is sheer tat and I've seen it before on SF's website - I used to occassionally use it for a book or so but you can find all the titles there far cheaper on Amazon or in many cases used on ebay. However the comments on Irish-Americans raise a few points, AFD bluntly says much of the stuff is marketed at them, looking at I'd be forced to agree. But the point that comes to mind is how insulting this stuff is - Americans are not idiots, naive about other countries yes as I have reason to know from working with them. They often are not the most cosmopolitan of people, but they are capable of understanding a situation's complexity just as much as anyone else if it is explained to them. Much of the IRA t-shirt type merchandise seems designed to aim for the lowest common denominator and encourage sloganeering instead of thinking.
I'd like to take issue with one other point, Setanta mentions how if it became a game of mudslinging between political parties he could throw up Arthur Griffith's anti-semitic remarks and articles at other parties. That irked me as Griffiths was writing half this shite (and by God is it offensive nonsense as more enlightened republicans like Connolly commented even at the time) while a member of Sinn Fein a party he of course helped found so Griffith anti-semitism could be used against both Sinn Fein and Fine Gael. Is Griffiths now airbrushed out of SF history or what?
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Post by Blue Angel on Jun 18, 2009 17:08:56 GMT
I'm not been funny Setanta but that kind of thinking reminds me of what my wife says about Russian history text books and how every generation finds different figures in favour and allowed in the textbooks. It's shockingly dishonest to sweep Griffiths under the carpet like that.
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Post by bearhunter on Jun 18, 2009 23:38:46 GMT
Cough, cough, cough, Sean Russell, cough, cough, cough...
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Post by earl on Jun 19, 2009 9:41:34 GMT
Griffith's was a shinner.
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Post by earl on Jun 19, 2009 10:51:30 GMT
It still is your history. Ignoring it in the hope it'll go away is dishonest. Like claiming you are a socialist party while selling out with overpriced plastic tack.
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