Will Unionists accept a Sinn Féin 1st Minister?

[Bilk]

I would accept a SF First minister provided he is the leader of the largest party in the assembly. In fact I would welcome it, he is no more likely to bring about a UI than a deputy first minister can. At the end of the day that is written in stone, it can only come about by referendum what ever suit is sitting at the top of the pile. Perhaps a spell up there where it matters might bring SF to the point of no longer being able to oppose everything but propose some things and watch them knocked to pieces by the others as has happened throughout the history of the present government. First minister, deputy first minister, it makes no difference. The way the assembly is at present set up no one can move without the expresss permission of the rest.

[He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness]

earl said:

halflife said:

There was never a plan b, it was just a fudge to scare the unionist voters, as to the question no, not ever as far as i am concerned that would be like isreal having hitler as its primeminster

It was enough of a fudge to scare the DUP, famous for not scaring easily. If Stormont were to fail, the most likely reason for it failing would probably be Unionist based. The British government will try and deter this as much as possible. They were bullied once before out of a solution which could have saved many lives, and was a better deal for Unionists than the current one. Once bitten, twice shy. The British government are no mugs. They've seen the exit door and they're not going to lose site of it. If Stormont fails, I'd be very, very suprised if the direct rule imposed in the aftermath is the same as that of the 80's and 90's. The Irish government are now too involved and relations between the governments are too good. This is the reality. Plan B can be easily carried out. The systems are in place. You simply take NI politicians out of the equation, and voila, intergovernmental power sharing between Dublin and London.

quite frankly thats bullshit, just because british and irish ministers get on well does not make joint sovergenty anymore likley, are you fogetting the different judicial systems, different health care systems (can't to many in the republic agreeing to fund total free health care for people in NI when they don't get it themselves), different taxs systems, different currencys the list goes on, of course you would have to stump up 50% of the budget of NI as well which with the likley civil unrest (and yes harry there would be plenty, the unionist community is not dead yet) the budget is going to be quite alot. In the 70's the British government looked into joint rule and found it was a non starter then and it remains are non-starter now.
As for scareing the DUP you just have to shout rome rule and they shit thier pants, fears is something the DUP are a party that specalizes in fear as its is a form of poltics that they have been peddling for years to the unionist community, that fear finily paid of thanks to the british governments help and its bogus plan b

[Bilk]

halflife said:

earl said:

It was enough of a fudge to scare the DUP, famous for not scaring easily. If Stormont were to fail, the most likely reason for it failing would probably be Unionist based. The British government will try and deter this as much as possible. They were bullied once before out of a solution which could have saved many lives, and was a better deal for Unionists than the current one. Once bitten, twice shy. The British government are no mugs. They've seen the exit door and they're not going to lose site of it. If Stormont fails, I'd be very, very suprised if the direct rule imposed in the aftermath is the same as that of the 80's and 90's. The Irish government are now too involved and relations between the governments are too good. This is the reality. Plan B can be easily carried out. The systems are in place. You simply take NI politicians out of the equation, and voila, intergovernmental power sharing between Dublin and London.

quite frankly thats bullshit, just because british and irish ministers get on well does not make joint sovergenty anymore likley, are you fogetting the different judicial systems, different health care systems (can't to many in the republic agreeing to fund total free health care for people in NI when they don't get it themselves), different taxs systems, different currencys the list goes on, of course you would have to stump up 50% of the budget of NI as well which with the likley civil unrest (and yes harry there would be plenty, the unionist community is not dead yet) the budget is going to be quite alot. In the 70's the British government looked into joint rule and found it was a non starter then and it remains are non-starter now.
As for scareing the DUP you just have to shout rome rule and they shit thier pants, fears is something the DUP are a party that specalizes in fear as its is a form of poltics that they have been peddling for years to the unionist community, that fear finily paid of thanks to the british governments help and its bogus plan b

When asked an awkward question, or ask why something should or should not happen, SF's reply is usually do you want to go back to the bad old days? (meaning we will blow the shit out of yez again) Now that's the real politics of fear.

[Wasp]

setanta said:

gis an "for instance", bilk.

I think bilk means the veiled threats that we often hear.

SINN FE´IN warned yesterday that the peace process stands in crisis over provocative demands for arms decommissioning, while a leading republican declared over the weekend there would be no surrender..............Mr Adams said the outcome to last week's talks may be counter-productive if viewed by paramilitary groups as an ultimatum..................He described the repeated calls on the IRA to dismantle their weapons as a provocation..................Sinn Féin chairman Mitchel McLaughlin said: "The agreement is clearly in crisis. Another deadline passed this week and the peace process remains in considerable doubt."............At an earlier ceremony in Co. Monaghan, Belfast republican Brian Keenan said there will be no renegotiation of the Good Friday Agreement and if it falls, it falls. He also said that O´glaigh na hE´ireann (IRA) are not party to the agreement and are under no obligation to decommission.

[Jim]

And since then, they have.

[Wasp]

So they claim. Didn't even republicans here say no-one believes that all weapons were put beyond use and that obviously some would have been moved beforehand?

[Jim]

I wouldn't know, I'm not in the IRA. As far as I'm concerned, the governments and the international community is satisfied with the decommissioning.

[Wasp]

Are you always this satisfied with the word of governments?

[Jim]

Nope, I look at everything governments put out by their merits.

[Bilk]

wasp said:

So they claim. Didn't even republicans here say no-one believes that all weapons were put beyond use and that obviously some would have been moved beforehand?

I think for the moment WASP we are just going to have to be satisfied with "they are not being used". Both unionist parties have sat in government with those they once said they wouldn't sit with until this matter was resolved. Since it has happened we have to assume it has been resolved, certainly to the satisfaction of the two unionist parties. It's gone mate so there is no point in going over old ground, . We can't resurect this dead duck

[He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness]

bilk said:

wasp said:

So they claim. Didn't even republicans here say no-one believes that all weapons were put beyond use and that obviously some would have been moved beforehand?

I think for the moment WASP we are just going to have to be satisfied with "they are not being used". Both unionist parties have sat in government with those they once said they wouldn't sit with until this matter was resolved. Since it has happened we have to assume it has been resolved, certainly to the satisfaction of the two unionist parties. It's gone mate so there is no point in going over old ground, . We can't resurect this dead duck

when we are talking about the honesty and sincerity of the political partys involved and wether or not we the public were lied to for matters of political expendancy then i think it is very much a live issue

[Bilk]

halflife said:

bilk said:

I think for the moment WASP we are just going to have to be satisfied with "they are not being used". Both unionist parties have sat in government with those they once said they wouldn't sit with until this matter was resolved. Since it has happened we have to assume it has been resolved, certainly to the satisfaction of the two unionist parties. It's gone mate so there is no point in going over old ground, . We can't resurect this dead duck

when we are talking about the honesty and sincerity of the political partys involved and wether or not we the public were lied to for matters of political expendancy then i think it is very much a live issue

I don't disagree, but I'm nothing else if not pragmatic. As I'm sure many nationalists on here can tell you, I didn't believe it either, but I can't see the issue becoming an issue again anytime soon. It's water under the bridge now

[He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness]

bilk said:

halflife said:

when we are talking about the honesty and sincerity of the political partys involved and wether or not we the public were lied to for matters of political expendancy then i think it is very much a live issue

I don't disagree, but I'm nothing else if not pragmatic. As I'm sure many nationalists on here can tell you, I didn't believe it either, but I can't see the issue becoming an issue again anytime soon. It's water under the bridge now

I don't see the issue as being one about decommissoning since i never cared about it the issue for me is the lieing and deciet that both sinn fein and the DUP have and still are engaged in to cajol the people of northern ireland into supporting stormont, just how far are people willing to go to keep this process going how many more lies will they spin us, when we will stop allowing the lies to washed under the bridge

[Bilk]

halflife said:

bilk said:

I don't disagree, but I'm nothing else if not pragmatic. As I'm sure many nationalists on here can tell you, I didn't believe it either, but I can't see the issue becoming an issue again anytime soon. It's water under the bridge now

I don't see the issue as being one about decommissoning since i never cared about it the issue for me is the lieing and deciet that both sinn fein and the DUP have and still are engaged in to cajol the people of northern ireland into supporting stormont, just how far are people willing to go to keep this process going how many more lies will they spin us, when we will stop allowing the lies to washed under the bridge

As many as it takes mate, a plague on all their houses is what I say. Then again that is not just here, you will travel a long way to find an honest politition.

[He_Who_Walks_in_The_Wilderness]

how can we ever have genuine peace when the entire peace process is based on deceit. Yes what ever country you care to mention you will hard done by to find an honest politician but that does not mask it ok for us nor should we accept it as the norm