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Post by Harry on May 25, 2008 17:26:41 GMT
Sorry to post this without my own input but i'm quite busy with work at the moment so i'll give my pennys worth ASAP.
What can we do to encourage more families?? Get rid of the drunkards stigma?? The blue bag brigade?? The lack of respect for local people and by this i mean Loyalist areas by a small minority of bandsmen and supporters??
Are bonfires the best way to bring in the 12th?? ideas about rubbish etc.
I just want ideas or links etc to any new ideas already out there.
maybe we don't need new ideas but would be interested to hear how fellow Unionists/Loyalists fee about the way we celebrate our culture
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Post by Harry on May 25, 2008 17:28:51 GMT
I'm hoping this thread develops between the few Unionists who use this forum.
Republican views are welcome but any attempt by anyone to turn this thread into the slanging match it became last time will result in their posts being removed without any warning.
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Post by Wasp on May 25, 2008 17:51:50 GMT
Harry there is much can be done to improve our celebrations, there have been ideas that I never though of and these ideas should at the very least be looked at. Making the 11th a family fun day, finishing off with the fire and fireworks would be a great idea. These events would need to be marshalled to prevent lager louts from spoiling the fun for everyone else.
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Post by Harry on May 25, 2008 18:36:39 GMT
I personally feel we should look at alternatives to the bonfire??
Who would be willing to lose the bonfires on the 11th??
What could replace them??
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Post by Wasp on May 25, 2008 18:56:27 GMT
I wouldn't be willing to lose them, instead we should be making the celebrations bigger and better. Reducing the amount of fires could be looked at though.
Instead of replacing bonfires I think a mini carnival type event could be a great way to kick off our twelth celebrations.
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Post by Bilk on May 25, 2008 19:21:35 GMT
I personally feel we should look at alternatives to the bonfire?? Who would be willing to lose the bonfires on the 11th?? What could replace them?? As I said on the previous thread Harry, I would be happy for them to go and be replaced by street parties. Heavily involving the kids and the fmily. And no one likes a beer more than me but there is no need to get legless at these events. They need to be marshalled and any unrully elements removed. The problem we have with that is that the socalled hardmen loyalists are usually the ones causing any trouble. If one of them is asked to move on I can imagine what would happen. They'd leave and return with 20 or so of their mates and wreck the place. Any destroying of enjoyment on the 11th night can't be blamed on nationalists or republicans, it's destroyed by those who proport to be more loyal than you and me. I rarely even go to see the 12th parade now, since the last time I was there about four years ago. I stood on the Lisburn Road at the top of Tates Avenue, it was going to be nostalgic for me because as a lad that's where I always watched the paraade Boy was I wrong, what I witnessed was the boys and their wags. Hundreds of them making a nusience of themselves to everyone. They came out of the bars when the parade arrived, and stood right in front of old people and families with kids. Some of whom had been there for hours to make sure they got a good spot. Anyone who complained were told what to do with themselves if they liked where their teeth were. Then the banners appeared, not orange banners, but big billboard banners strung round the Ulster Bank (or what used to be the Ulster Bank) With "Pride of the Villiage UVF" in very large letters on them. About thirty yards down the road from this bunch of thugs was another bunch of thugs and another banner. This one proudly announced that they were the Villiage UDA. They then proceeded to abuse each other verbally all afternoon. Some of the bands were obviously either UDA or UVF band and were cheered and booed respectively depending which bunch of hard men, who push old ladies and children about, the band was passing. I was totally and utterly disgusted, and like I say haven't reurned for some years. These are the people we should be asking what we do to stop "them" turning the 12th into a nightmare for many people. We can put forward ideas until the band stops playing, (excuse the pun) but until someone does something about these idiots nothing will work. |
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Post by Harry on May 26, 2008 8:14:59 GMT
I personally feel we should look at alternatives to the bonfire?? Who would be willing to lose the bonfires on the 11th?? What could replace them?? As I said on the previous thread Harry, I would be happy for them to go and be replaced by street parties. Heavily involving the kids and the fmily. And no one likes a beer more than me but there is no need to get legless at these events. They need to be marshalled and any unrully elements removed. The problem we have with that is that the socalled hardmen loyalists are usually the ones causing any trouble. If one of them is asked to move on I can imagine what would happen. They'd leave and return with 20 or so of their mates and wreck the place. Any destroying of enjoyment on the 11th night can't be blamed on nationalists or republicans, it's destroyed by those who proport to be more loyal than you and me. I rarely even go to see the 12th parade now, since the last time I was there about four years ago. I stood on the Lisburn Road at the top of Tates Avenue, it was going to be nostalgic for me because as a lad that's where I always watched the paraade Boy was I wrong, what I witnessed was the boys and their wags. Hundreds of them making a nusience of themselves to everyone. They came out of the bars when the parade arrived, and stood right in front of old people and families with kids. Some of whom had been there for hours to make sure they got a good spot. Anyone who complained were told what to do with themselves if they liked where their teeth were. Then the banners appeared, not orange banners, but big billboard banners strung round the Ulster Bank (or what used to be the Ulster Bank) With "Pride of the Villiage UVF" in very large letters on them. About thirty yards down the road from this bunch of thugs was another bunch of thugs and another banner. This one proudly announced that they were the Villiage UDA. They then proceeded to abuse each other verbally all afternoon. Some of the bands were obviously either UDA or UVF band and were cheered and booed respectively depending which bunch of hard men, who push old ladies and children about, the band was passing. I was totally and utterly disgusted, and like I say haven't reurned for some years. These are the people we should be asking what we do to stop "them" turning the 12th into a nightmare for many people. We can put forward ideas until the band stops playing, (excuse the pun) but until someone does something about these idiots nothing will work. Good post mate. This is all too common throughout our community. A while ago i witnessed something similar in Ballymena. At an annual band parade the host band was a UVF band, Crawford Memorial who mainly come from the Ballee estate in ballymena. All the talk of the town had been about the likely trouble between UDA and UVF supporters. When the parade got to harryville a ring of police had to hold back UDA supporters. So i'm there watching Police hold back Loyalist from Loyalist and your heart really sinks. Decent people stayed away. No one in their right mind would of brought a family to watch this. I would be fully behind stopping the bonfies in favour of something different. I truly liked the idea of lighting beacons at midnight. So the lighting of the beacon could be the closing of a full day of fun and activity. How do we rid the paramilitary influence?? I think we need a think tank right across the board of Loyalism. Most areas have a community group of some sort. Would it be possible to lobby our so called local politicians and get something like this in action?? We could have meetings around all of the different areas and get ideas on how different areas work and handle things. |
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Post by Bilk on May 26, 2008 9:53:31 GMT
As I said on the previous thread Harry, I would be happy for them to go and be replaced by street parties. Heavily involving the kids and the fmily. And no one likes a beer more than me but there is no need to get legless at these events. They need to be marshalled and any unrully elements removed. The problem we have with that is that the socalled hardmen loyalists are usually the ones causing any trouble. If one of them is asked to move on I can imagine what would happen. They'd leave and return with 20 or so of their mates and wreck the place. Any destroying of enjoyment on the 11th night can't be blamed on nationalists or republicans, it's destroyed by those who proport to be more loyal than you and me. I rarely even go to see the 12th parade now, since the last time I was there about four years ago. I stood on the Lisburn Road at the top of Tates Avenue, it was going to be nostalgic for me because as a lad that's where I always watched the paraade Boy was I wrong, what I witnessed was the boys and their wags. Hundreds of them making a nusience of themselves to everyone. They came out of the bars when the parade arrived, and stood right in front of old people and families with kids. Some of whom had been there for hours to make sure they got a good spot. Anyone who complained were told what to do with themselves if they liked where their teeth were. Then the banners appeared, not orange banners, but big billboard banners strung round the Ulster Bank (or what used to be the Ulster Bank) With "Pride of the Villiage UVF" in very large letters on them. About thirty yards down the road from this bunch of thugs was another bunch of thugs and another banner. This one proudly announced that they were the Villiage UDA. They then proceeded to abuse each other verbally all afternoon. Some of the bands were obviously either UDA or UVF band and were cheered and booed respectively depending which bunch of hard men, who push old ladies and children about, the band was passing. I was totally and utterly disgusted, and like I say haven't reurned for some years. These are the people we should be asking what we do to stop "them" turning the 12th into a nightmare for many people. We can put forward ideas until the band stops playing, (excuse the pun) but until someone does something about these idiots nothing will work. Good post mate. This is all too common throughout our community. A while ago i witnessed something similar in Ballymena. At an annual band parade the host band was a UVF band, Crawford Memorial who mainly come from the Ballee estate in ballymena. All the talk of the town had been about the likely trouble between UDA and UVF supporters. When the parade got to harryville a ring of police had to hold back UDA supporters. So i'm there watching Police hold back Loyalist from Loyalist and your heart really sinks. Decent people stayed away. No one in their right mind would of brought a family to watch this. I would be fully behind stopping the bonfies in favour of something different. I truly liked the idea of lighting beacons at midnight. So the lighting of the beacon could be the closing of a full day of fun and activity. How do we rid the paramilitary influence?? I think we need a think tank right across the board of Loyalism. Most areas have a community group of some sort. Would it be possible to lobby our so called local politicians and get something like this in action?? We could have meetings around all of the different areas and get ideas on how different areas work and handle things. To be brutally honest Harry our polititions are too busy back slapping each other to care what happens at the 12th. They only ever used the 12th to drum up political support. The other half of government as in SF would be only too happy to see the celebration disappear into oblivion. What annoys me most is that the paras are doing what all the offended republicans could not do for the past 30 or 40 years, they are destroying the event. Forget the polititions mate, what we need to do is talk to the leadership of these people and make this known to them. Whether that would bear any fruit or not I don't know, past experience suggests not. But they need to be told that they, and not republicans are destroying the PUL community. If the only way these idiots can celebrate a very proud time in our history is to get legless and high on etabs and fight among themselves, then sobeit. Why don't the all get together somewhere and do it by themselves, like rock freaks do at Glastonbury, and leave the rest of us alone. They need to be made to understand we don't care how hard they are, or how many pints they can drink without falling over. Their bravado means nothing to us and that they are impressing no one. In fact they are disgusting to the very people they proport to represent. This would have to be done by community leaders not polititions. Like the rest of us they hold the present bunch of socalled polititions in contempt. |
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Post by Harry on May 27, 2008 8:47:30 GMT
Would be difficult to make that happen. Not many would be prepared to stick their neck out and do it. Most likely me included. I'm ashamed to say it but i wouldn't want the hassle.
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Post by Jim on May 27, 2008 9:46:25 GMT
Does the amount that people drink not concern anyone?
When I was in Sandy row last 12th working I saw people walking around with entire cases of beer to themselves knocking back the cans.
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Post by An Fear Dubh on May 28, 2008 13:25:30 GMT
I do not think the best approach is to try and build a mass movement. As too quickly this gets hi-jacked by political opportunists, and gets diverted from the good intentions. I think if you build small and then others will copy if it is successful and adapt to suit their area. Although I do not like Mark Harbinson I think his proposal for last years 11th nite in Stoneyford were a good idea. For various reasons the proposal did not materialize, they even got a cautious welcome from SF. I do not know all the details but it was similar to what has been suggested by various contributors here. - Old style Beacon, family fun day/evening. Everyone has family and friends and it is all as Harry said a matter of who is willing to stick out their neck. I think the threat from the loyalist paras is not as big as might be thought and that the swell of local support would quickly overwhelm any voices of decent.
I think the debate on alcohol consumption is not one that is exclusive to any one community or grouping and we should not slide off down that tangent.
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Post by Harry on May 28, 2008 13:34:52 GMT
Agreed with AFD in relation to the alcohol. Its common and plights many gatherings.
There are efforts being made in Ballymena in relation to an umbrella group taking in all the local estates and trying to set a standard to follow. This needs encouragement.
About 2-4 years ago there was 2 bonfires in Harryville. The fire in St georges park was co-ordinated by the Harryville residents association and the paras didn't like it so they had their own down on wakehurst hockey pitches.
I thought this was a start of change but the following year everything is back in the hands of the paras. Now for what reasons i'm not sure but the fire is controlled by paras.
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Post by Bilk on May 31, 2008 12:19:40 GMT
Agreed with AFD in relation to the alcohol. Its common and plights many gatherings. There are efforts being made in Ballymena in relation to an umbrella group taking in all the local estates and trying to set a standard to follow. This needs encouragement. About 2-4 years ago there was 2 bonfires in Harryville. The fire in St georges park was co-ordinated by the Harryville residents association and the paras didn't like it so they had their own down on wakehurst hockey pitches. I thought this was a start of change but the following year everything is back in the hands of the paras. Now for what reasons i'm not sure but the fire is controlled by paras. The organisers of the in fire St Georges were probably threatened Harry. Not something I know about, just a guess on based on past experience of similar situations. I think your assertion that "The paras did't like it" says it all. These thugs don't usually take anything they don't like lying down. |
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