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Post by Wasp on May 15, 2008 22:59:12 GMT
When I was growing up when I complained about anything my grand parents especially always said don't moan about what you have got incase you end up with something to really moan about. Times they pointed out something on the news to show how worse alot of people were off than myself so it left me feeling guilty about complaining. Very much a case of accepting and making the best of the hand you are dealt with.
If I was to come home and mention hatred spread in our schools (which it wasn't) in the sameway it is taught in Irish schools and churchs about the big bad Brits and Prods then I would have been moved school. Why does Irish/Catholic schools teach so much hatred that can only make many people grow up with that hatred for the British?
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Post by Jim on May 15, 2008 23:09:16 GMT
My school didnt.
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Post by Republic on May 16, 2008 0:14:35 GMT
If I was to come home and mention hatred spread in our schools (which it wasn't) in the sameway it is taught in Irish schools and churchs about the big bad Brits and Prods then I would have been moved school. Why does Irish/Catholic schools teach so much hatred that can only make many people grow up with that hatred for the British? Havent been on here much lately but I had to comment on this. I'm out on teaching practice at the minute and the above statement is completely false WASP. Schools in the ROI do not teach hatred of protestantism or britain in the slightest. You know I have no axe to grind and would be the first to speak up if that really was the case. |
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Post by bearhunter on May 16, 2008 1:49:08 GMT
Hown in the blue f*ck did this thread end up discussing the Irish education system? Wasn't it about Rangers until a minute ago?
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Post by leeside on May 16, 2008 12:57:23 GMT
WASP wrote:
Hatred of the Brits or Protestantism was not taught in any Irish school I was brought up in nor was it ever preached in any Catholic church I was ever in. Maybe you can give me some reference to the Irish school curriculum that verifies your claims. The most absolutely vile hatred/racism/sectarianism that I ever witness towards either prods/brits or Caths/Irish is on a particular 'christian' website that you frequent. That vile hatred/racism/sectarianism is directly aimed at Catholics and the Irish people in general so that begs the question........are ye taught that in school or was Mary McAleese correct in claiming that "Protestant children in Northern Ireland had been brought up to hate Catholics just as German children were encouraged to hate Jews under the Nazis"? 10 mins trolling around that site would suggest the latter.
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Post by Bilk on May 16, 2008 13:11:33 GMT
WASP wrote:
Hatred of the Brits or Protestantism was not taught in any Irish school I was brought up in nor was it ever preached in any Catholic church I was ever in. Maybe you can give me some reference to the Irish school curriculum that verifies your claims. The most absolutely vile hatred/racism/sectarianism that I ever witness towards either prods/brits or Caths/Irish is on a particular 'christian' website that you frequent. That vile hatred/racism/sectarianism is directly aimed at Catholics and the Irish people in general so that begs the question........are ye taught that in school or was Mary McAleese correct in claiming that "Protestant children in Northern Ireland had been brought up to hate Catholics just as German children were encouraged to hate Jews under the Nazis"? 10 mins trolling around that site would suggest the latter. Don't know how this got unto Irish history being taught in schools. But anyway, Weren't you taught Irish history leeside. I honestly believe you were. No one I think got you to stand up every morning and chant "I hate the Brits" But you would've been taught the Irish version of the famine for instance? The teaching of hatred was subliminal, in that, certainly in the north, (And I know this from Catholic friends) Cromwell was portrayed as a hater of the Irish and the famine was basically all his fault and that he did nothing to help the Irish, with his "Let them eat grass" slogan that he is supposed to have said. That may well all be true I don't know for sure. But there was more too it than that and they (Catholic schools) weren't taught that bit about If the famine had happened in say cornwall his (Cromwells) reaction would have been exactly the same. You see I learned about Cromwell and what he did to all the peasants of the then UK. |
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Post by Blue Angel on May 16, 2008 13:23:09 GMT
for anyone irish bilk famine will suggest An Gorta Mor - the famine of the cromwellian period and the later famines tend to be obscured beyond the shadow of that event. And Cromwell was that most dangerous things - someone who believes he is truly righteous.
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Post by leeside on May 16, 2008 13:27:23 GMT
WASP wrote:
Hatred of the Brits or Protestantism was not taught in any Irish school I was brought up in nor was it ever preached in any Catholic church I was ever in. Maybe you can give me some reference to the Irish school curriculum that verifies your claims. The most absolutely vile hatred/racism/sectarianism that I ever witness towards either prods/brits or Caths/Irish is on a particular 'christian' website that you frequent. That vile hatred/racism/sectarianism is directly aimed at Catholics and the Irish people in general so that begs the question........are ye taught that in school or was Mary McAleese correct in claiming that "Protestant children in Northern Ireland had been brought up to hate Catholics just as German children were encouraged to hate Jews under the Nazis"? 10 mins trolling around that site would suggest the latter. Don't know how this got unto Irish history being taught in schools. But anyway, Weren't you taught Irish history leeside. I honestly believe you were. No one I think got you to stand up every morning and chant "I hate the Brits" But you would've been taught the Irish version of the famine for instance? The teaching of hatred was subliminal, in that, certainly in the north, (And I know this from Catholic friends) Cromwell was portrayed as a hater of the Irish and the famine was basically all his fault and that he did nothing to help the Irish, with his "Let them eat grass" slogan that he is supposed to have said. That may well all be true I don't know for sure. But there was more too it than that and they (Catholic schools) weren't taught that bit about If the famine had happened in say cornwall his (Cromwells) reaction would have been exactly the same. You see I learned about Cromwell and what he did to all the peasants of the then UK. Neither do I know how this got onto Irish history...i just read the last post by WASP. Yes, I was taught history in school. Judging from some posts I read from some unionists/loyalists the Irish History curriculum did consist of something akin to the practice of burning union-jacks and pledging death and destruction to all things British. Thats simply not true. Of course there would have been a nationalist slant on Irelands history taught in schools in the same way only the 'glorious' parts of British history is taught in British schools. Cromwell was certainly not a friend of the Catholic Irish. "Too hell or to Connaught" is actually his more famous quote. Cromwell was around 200 years before the famine so which ever Catholic friend of yours claims that he was the cause of it obviously wasn't a very attentive student. |
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Post by An Fear Dubh on May 16, 2008 14:16:37 GMT
How does a thread titled 'Rangers in the UEFA final' end up on the Irish education system is mind boggling. But it seems that the myths are flying about today. As Leeside said Cromwell and the period known as 'An Gorta Mór' (the Great Hunger) or the Irish Famine were hundreds of years apart. And what is this 'Irish' version of that famine period?? Is this the same period that the British government in Tony Blair publically appoligised to the Irish people for the role the British government played in this period? Starvation and hunger was not sectarian, poor people from every religion starved.
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Post by Bilk on May 16, 2008 14:29:25 GMT
Don't know how this got unto Irish history being taught in schools. But anyway, Weren't you taught Irish history leeside. I honestly believe you were. No one I think got you to stand up every morning and chant "I hate the Brits" But you would've been taught the Irish version of the famine for instance? The teaching of hatred was subliminal, in that, certainly in the north, (And I know this from Catholic friends) Cromwell was portrayed as a hater of the Irish and the famine was basically all his fault and that he did nothing to help the Irish, with his "Let them eat grass" slogan that he is supposed to have said. That may well all be true I don't know for sure. But there was more too it than that and they (Catholic schools) weren't taught that bit about If the famine had happened in say cornwall his (Cromwells) reaction would have been exactly the same. You see I learned about Cromwell and what he did to all the peasants of the then UK. Neither do I know how this got onto Irish history...i just read the last post by WASP. Yes, I was taught history in school. Judging from some posts I read from some unionists/loyalists the Irish History curriculum did consist of something akin to the practice of burning union-jacks and pledging death and destruction to all things British. Thats simply not true. Of course there would have been a nationalist slant on Irelands history taught in schools in the same way only the 'glorious' parts of British history is taught in British schools. Cromwell was certainly not a friend of the Catholic Irish. "Too hell or to Connaught" is actually his more famous quote. Cromwell was around 200 years before the famine so which ever Catholic friend of yours claims that he was the cause of it obviously wasn't a very attentive student. You may well be right, perhaps I didn't listen properly, I don't do history, but the gist of what he was saying was the same. How something is taught to you is more important than what is taught, or should I say that what is left out is more important. I don't see it just as a nationalist slant if you leave out big sections of the person or event you are talking about, to give the impression that it happened only to your people. For instance I was taught about Kaizer Bill, and I don't think the Germans picked on only the UK which would lead me as a Brit to hate the Germans with a vengence. I was taught what they did everywhere. Whether it was Cromwell or someone else who said the above, the argument is still the same. The Irish were taught it, whatever it might have been, happened only to the Irish. When the Aristocracy for centuries treated all the peasants of the UK like shit. Look what Sutherland did in Scotland, evil bastard, but you don't hear the scots crying that it happened to them because they were Scots. The Brits treated the Irish peasantry no different than they did to the rest of the UK. But the Irish are left believing that they did, because this was omitted from their teachings, which explains their hatred for the Brits. Even in living memory the same thing was happening, Catholics/nationalists were being told that their housing/job conditions was down to them being Catholics/nationalists, when in fact their protestant/unionist neighbours were as poor, and in some cases, poorer than them |
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Post by earl on May 16, 2008 15:28:17 GMT
When I was growing up when I complained about anything my grand parents especially always said don't moan about what you have got incase you end up with something to really moan about. Times they pointed out something on the news to show how worse alot of people were off than myself so it left me feeling guilty about complaining. Very much a case of accepting and making the best of the hand you are dealt with. If I was to come home and mention hatred spread in our schools (which it wasn't) in the sameway it is taught in Irish schools and churchs about the big bad Brits and Prods then I would have been moved school. Why does Irish/Catholic schools teach so much hatred that can only make many people grow up with that hatred for the British? I say again, I learned no hatred in school or church. Hate to burst another myth WASP. Any distaste of the British came through their own actions. Now, we're the best of friends and those days will never return. |
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Post by Bilk on May 16, 2008 15:38:58 GMT
How does a thread titled 'Rangers in the UEFA final' end up on the Irish education system is mind boggling. But it seems that the myths are flying about today. As Leeside said Cromwell and the period known as 'An Gorta Mór' (the Great Hunger) or the Irish Famine were hundreds of years apart. And what is this 'Irish' version of that famine period?? Is this the same period that the British government in Tony Blair publically appoligised to the Irish people for the role the British government played in this period? Starvation and hunger was not sectarian, poor people from every religion starved. Exactly Tony Blair had to apologise for the famine to Nationalists as part of the peace process. The Irish verion of that famine as you put it mate is that it ignored protestants, and those who wished to remain British, And attacked only the farms of nationalist Irish. It is your famine it's not mine, my ancestors never suffered from it. It has been part and parcel of the republican movement ever since it happened, like it was the fault of the Brits. So convinced are the Brits by this rhetoric they feel they have to apologise for it in the 21st century ffs. Tony didn't apologise to the rest of the UK for the treatment they received in the same period, only the Irish. It was a famine it happened, it had absolutely nothing to do with politics, but it is touted by republicans wherever they go as an example of how the Brits treated the Irish. And whether you like it or not they start being taught that verion in school. |
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Post by Republic on May 16, 2008 15:59:10 GMT
It was a famine it happened, it had absolutely nothing to do with politics, but it is touted by republicans wherever they go as an example of how the Brits treated the Irish. And whether you like it or not they start being taught that verion in school. That is not what is being taught in Irish schools. I cannot speak for schools in NI. Maybe you are referring to schools in NI. Here is a link to the history curriculum in Irish primary schools www.curriculumonline.ie/index.asp?locID=47&docID=-1That is for the senior classes^^^ It is a well balanced curriculum. |
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Post by Harry on May 16, 2008 16:12:23 GMT
Thread Moved. Its gone way off but we can't stop it.
If we can try and keep the sport section for sport.
If a post drifts then it will be moved to appropiate section.
Its either that or delete off topic posts??
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Post by Blue Angel on May 16, 2008 16:34:06 GMT
At some level disadvantage people ARE treated the way they are because they are part of a specific group (although the British, German, Russian, French or any other empire you would like to name was quite happy to step on any group in it's way). Certainly the history of British rules suggest at times a not inconsiderable attempt to erode's people pride and belief in their own culture (just as the Americans did that on a larger and more vicious scale with the Native American peoples).
I was certainly not taught to hate the British - I was taught that all people are first and foremost human beings and should be respected as such but also that you can disagree with them politically (and strongly so) and still hold that outlook.
For me British involvement in Ireland has on balance been a disaster across the centuries - it's a shame - the Union could have worked out much better and in itself is a good and not a bad idea and indeed perhaps one day a more equal partnership could be established (I can hear some unionist jaws dropping at that remark I think)
As to An Gorta Mor, sadly that was such a colossal and pivotal tragedy that it overshadows the fact that it was presaged by a famine nearly as bad a century before whose victims are mostly forgotten.
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