Loyalist Stone due in Crown Court

[Blue Angel]

Again that is a mirror of those on the republican side who believe their verison of republicanism is the only one and that all who do not agree are mistaken...

[Wasp]

setanta show me what someone with your line of thinking achieved during the troubles, show me what your line of thinking is achieving in loyalist areas (by that I don't mean the onvious which has been pointed out to you several times).

[Jim]

May 24, 2008 16:23:41 GMT Harry said:

May 24, 2008 14:59:05 GMT Jim said:

I understand why you are saying it I just find it comparable to me saying I support the shankill fish shop bombing (which i dont), if I said I did I'd be made out to have horns on my head

Jim say what you like, compare it to what you like. I won't be changing my views on it. We have moved on from then.

Yes, we have, lets hope we keep moving on where we dont need to support or condemn actions of others to stay true to our real beliefs, thats whats important; nowt else I can say other than that.

[Blue Angel]

bravo to that last statement

[An Fear Dubh]

I think Setanta could show that Sinn Féin have achieved a few seats in local government, and this could be attributed to their role in the 'troubles'.

In politics there is no higher achievement than being in government. What has your negative politics achieved Wasp?

[Wasp]

I am not doing anything in the name of art here. Yes sinn fein are now in gov after signing up to approving what republicans would class the 'occupational' forces in Ireland. During the troubles sinn fein achieved pain and misery. When sii fein show that they truly regret what took place and put their actions into words then I will see things different.

There present strategy is to offend, winde up, antagonize the Unionist community with there double standards and hypocricy. They (sinn fein/ira) are creating and maintaining views like my own, loyalists need to do nothing, sf/ira are doing all the work for them.

[An Fear Dubh]

No you (Wasp) are not doing anything in the name of art. What positive are you doing? It is fair enough to criticise but this forum is about more than that, it is about finding common ground and a way forward.
What common ground have you established?
What way forward are you looking develop?
All you talk about is how you view others never looking to find a way forward.
You talk about when others show change, how about you showing at least a willingness to look for change, but even that seems beyond you.

[Wasp]

Well I have found common ground with Jim after he stated he was British as well, common ground that he condemned some ira attacks without reservation, for that alone I will always have repsect for Jim. I have found common ground within various republican communities on the needs for certain areas, I know I am outspoke but I see it as giving republicans a taste of there own debating medicene because they can't handle the same line of arguement being pointed back.

I commented on a post by yourself concerning justifying attacks on your community, your post backed loyalist views on it, then setanta had the neck on him to question bilk if he agreed with me. Yet he supports the very organisation that inflicted so much suffering on my community without condemnation. He like others usually come out with the feeble, lame excuses to justify such attacks. While there is no respect for what happened to my community, no acknowledgement of what happened without the lies and spin then I will always stand my ground on whatever forum when it comes to the republican stance.

[Wasp]

First of all what I say in general to do with republicans is true and has been proved time and time again. What sickens me is your support for terrorists and going against the very principles of democracy. Your party's private army ignored the pleas for decades from politicainas from all walks of life and various governments. You's just kiept the ourselvesalone attitude while planning/supporting/executing the most horrendous of crimes.

Now you lot come out as though you need a pat in the back because you have alledgedly stopped the violence, you's are pretending to be this democratic party fighting against injustice while forgetting your ballot box and armalite strategy. You commemorate and glorify dissidents yet with all this you hammer people like me for speaking out and pointing out the blatant lies and deceit of sinn fein/ira.

Yet for decades people from all walks of life were pleading with your lot to stop the horrific violence and you all carried on with your sectarian self loathing hatred. You have a flaming neck on you.

My British court is the same court that your party have recognoized and signed up to, so it is not just my court, it is our court, well apart from people like yourself who don't live here. You can't hack been given a taste of your own medicene that you dish out, infact none of you can. I wander what waffle I will get back now from my post.

[Wasp]

would that be what does my views achieve, well before you start look at your own political mandate, your own political views etc. You mentioned what sf are doing, well basically they are doing to loyalists what you and other republicans have done to loyalists here. Now ask yourself why those that left did leave and then think on the affect your political thinking has on the loyalist community as a whole.

Don't forget some of those that left were tolerant, forgiving and very fair people.

[Wasp]

so more grandiose statements and no examples of achievement again WASP.

What achievement are you on about, I am not a political party so stop talking to me as though I am. I am a loyalist who has given his opinions on a forum but according to you I have to have a mandate etc.

If you see Stone, who this thrend is about, as a Dedicated Loyalist then you can say what he has positively achieved and again what you hope to achieve my trying to emulate his stance on here.

Hang on here setanta, why are you twisting what I said??Again??? My first post was 'He lives in faer and I believe as BH has said he needs therapy. Although he does come across as educated and has his head screwed on, but at times I found what he was saying as a mix between a weak and feeble man and that of a determined loyalist. His illness has played a major part on his mentality.

He has longed for the simple things in life but the path he chose prevents that. I feel sorry for him. '

My 3rd post was 'I don't beleive that was performance art, I would say attention seeking would be more fitting. If he intended as claimed then he would have been properly armed instead of the likes of a fake weapon. One journalist has already said he was going to do something big that day.

I totally condemn what he done that day, the security officers done a brilliant job apart from that it was a waste of time and energy. I don't believe it was poorly planned, it was well planned by someone that wouldn't be what I would call stable.'

Is that clear to you?? This constant misquoting me is getting tiresome but typical of some republicans to try and win an arguement.

Again you focus on the negative instead of the positive.

Oh so you just want me to brush everything negative under the carpet as usual. Try learning to take the rough with the smooth, I didn't realize this forum was for positive views only. Could you please re-write the forum rules and put in that wasp cannot comment on anything negative without being lambasted agian.

This Forum is going years, WASP. Thats a huge acheivement. People accross the spectrum of Unionism and Nationalism still talking after all these years, still sharing, still learning, still finding common ground. Still refusing to let those with nothing positive to offer drive us apart.
That's acheivement.

Excuse me mr wonderful I am still here, I am still arguing the loylaist case, I am still talking, I am still finding places of agreement etc etc. Don't forget because of your style of debate and politics and mindset Unionists have left leaving fewer of us than ever. It wasn't to long ago you were wanting Unionists here and as soon as this happens you make sure they are off again with your antagonizing hypocritical approach. Then you moan when you get a taste of what you dish out. If you can't handle the truth or awkward questions join sinn fein, oops you are already a member.

If people don't want to debate and chose not to debate their case and leave then it's up to them. Those that have stayed and debated logically have a plethora of achievements.
You achieve nothing by remaining on the outside.

Looks like you can delete my account now as well, I am here, I am debating but you don't want to hear anything that stands up to you and your ilk, you want soft touch only. So as you said I am on the outside and will achieve nothing, you have said that any post I make will be taken as seriously as a carry on film, therefore I would be better debating with those people who are willing to be challenged and face things instead of cowering away and trying to avoid the awkward questions. I will post my request for deleting my account in the town hall section when I reply to the posts I need to first.

Michael Stone tried to make a difference from the outside and tried to drive a wedge between people. He failed miserabley and is now considered a laughing stock accross the entire community.
You are seeking to emulate his divisiveness here.

Re-read my posts setanta ffs.

You will acheive what he did if you continue on this path.

That's right get the crystal ball out and tell me my future, actually I have achieved alot and I have taken back your mindset to members of my community and to them it is the likes of you that is the laughing stock.

[earl]

My British court is the same court that your party have recognoized and signed up to, so it is not just my court, it is our court,

Is that the same court where you condone the murder of female solicitors?